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String Badminton Racket

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by whitewhite, Nov 18, 2011.

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  1. whitewhite

    whitewhite New Member

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    We have to string our racket with two knot or four knot?? what is the different between the two knot and four knot??
     
  2. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Please do a search, as this topic has been brought up numerous times.

    Mostly, both methods have lil difference regarding playability. However, you need to check your racket's user guide to follow the recommended string pattern, to keep warranty. For Yonex, it's usually 4 knots.
     
  3. whitewhite

    whitewhite New Member

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    thanks, will 4 knot make racket broke easily?
     
  4. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    NO!

    It is actually the 2 knot method which makes the racquet less stable and easer to break. Who gave you that misinformation anyway?

    In fact as far as I know, more than 90% of racquet stringers in Malaysia string using the 2 know method. You know what that means. What a pity :crying:

    Be afraid, be very afraid of your stringer (if he does 2 knots and confuses you into thinking that his method is the better one)
     
  5. whitewhite

    whitewhite New Member

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    oo ic...thanks....A member from lowyat forum,@.@ he told me that 2knot will protect my racket and the tension will maintain, but 4 knot will broke my racket easily...but from Yonex catalogue shows 4 knot string method
     
  6. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    In that case, I believe that person is a badminton racquet stringer in Malaysia. That is their way of protecting this age long tradition of stringing using the 2 knot method and "a certain short cut method" which I have discussed in various threads in this forum.. Both of these in fact contribute to slightly uneven stress to the racquet frame.

    I once went to a stringer in South East Asia and he told me that the Yonex method in the catalogue is "a waste of time and is no better than [his] method (the traditional one I mentioned)" 0.o :rolleyes:

    (I personally am an amateur stringer now, and have done my racquets up to 33, 34lbs with the Yonex method you mentioned, showing you how scientifically-proven safe the method is plus how strong badminton racquets actually are)
     
  7. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    As for the 2 knot vs 4 knot tension maintenance fact, the 2 knot is really one piece of long string woven throughout the whole racquet frame (therefore 2 knots, 1 to start and 1 to end) compared to the 4 knot which is 2 pieces of shorter strings, 1 woven through the vertical mains and the other through the horizontal crosses.

    Basic scientific principal will tell you that the two shorter strings will have lower stretchability, meaning that they will maintain the tension that they are pulled at, by not being able to stretch as much compared to the one piece of long string (as in the 2 knot method). Thus the 4 knot method will maintain any tension longer.

    If you have 2 rubber bands one short and one long which one can you stretch more, proportionally? ;)
     
  8. whitewhite

    whitewhite New Member

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    Thanks for yr information, i just know there is the bug different between 2 knot and 4 knot....will 4 knot protect other brand racket also? Such as apacs, proace and etc
     
  9. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    The 4 knot method as illustrated in the Yonex catalogues is actually scientifically safer than the 2 knot method because there is no transition point on the racquet frame where the string turns 90 degrees and go from a main to a cross. This transition point is where sometimes the racquet frame can pivot at during slight deformations and even crack/break.

    The 4 knot method can be used with any racquet, just as the 2 knot can be also.
     
  10. SkiLLz

    SkiLLz Regular Member

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    You forgot to mention that 4 knots also loses more tension because the first stretch on each knot is very low whereas in 2 knots, only the last pull is loose.
     
  11. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    If you are a good stringer then you will only stretch a total of one knot out of the total 4 and that is the starting knot for the cross string. NO good stringer will ever start his mains on each side of the frame (by stretching on that knot) and how are you going to finish the job if you stretch on EACH OF THE 4 KNOTs anyway?!

    Honestly, this is how you do a proper 4 knot pattern:

    1. You start pulling on the centre two main strings then go alternatively left/right until you reach the sides and tie off on each side. To counter tension lost simply add 2lbs more to the last pull. (NO stretching on EACH tie off knot, as you suggested)

    2. You start the mains by tying a starting knot then stretch on that knot then finish with another tie off knot (adding the same 2lbs more). (Again, EXACTLY THE SAME as a 2 knot method where you only stretch on ONE starting knot)

    Understand the 4 knot method now? So where can the more tension lose its way in the 4 knot compared to the 2 knot (with your suggestion of more loose knots out of the question)?
     
  12. Udonming

    Udonming Regular Member

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    I totally disagree with your statement. I've been doing 1 piece 2 knots and everybody is happy about it. Don't make your personal preference as a rule and mislead newbies.
     
  13. SkiLLz

    SkiLLz Regular Member

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    You CLEARLY misunderstood my post. You have to stop posting and stop confusing the newbies.

    When doing the 4 knot (2-piece), the ends of the mains will always be loose, it doesnt matter if you compensate and add the extra 2 lbs but it will lessen the affect of lost tension but not compensate fully (been said in another post). I'm just stating the fact that the ends of the knot will be looser than the other ones because of the manual knotting. Furthermore, the last knot, which should be the last knot of the cross, will also be loose due to manual knotting, whereas in 2 knots (1 piece) stringing, only the last knot has a manual knot which will lose tension. In conclusion, 4 knot (2 piece stringing) has 3 manual knots and 2 knot (1 piece stringing) has only one.

    As for the racquet breaking due to extra stress on one side of the racquet from the 2 knot (1-piece) stringing, you are right but as long as you string under 24lbs, it is a very RARE occasion that a racquet would break. It should NOT warrant a red flag if a stringer does this. I've seen many international players and stringers that prefer this style. Don't listen to this Blitzzards guy, he doesnt know what he's talking about especially with him pulling out random statistics and over exaggerating everything.
     
  14. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    First of all, the loose ends of the mains which you insist are so important are where you would hardly even want to hit the shuttle with. Then even when you say that the tension loss can be carried over to the centre, the tension loss is only about 0.5lbs (provided that you add the 2lbs I stated at the sides) and to be honest at the very centre 6 main strings where you make contact with the shuttle the most, are hardly affected by the tension loss as the 0.5lbs hardly ever carry over all the way through 4 strings on each side before they reach the centre 6.

    Secondly when you say that there is only one ending knot on a 2 piece job, it ia very obvious to me now that you actually start your stringing from one side of the empty racquet to the other then transition to the cross strings. That, is one of the least advisable things to do as when you tension from side to side you are putting a lot of stress on one side compared to starting from the centre then going to the sides of the mains (where you insist that there are ending knots at the side which makes the string job loose). Please read up on Physics and the discussions in the forum regarding this before you teach the newbies the shortcut method which a lot of the good stringers and I have been advising people to avoid.

    Thirdly even though I am an amateur stringer myself I have been stringing at tensions of 31 to 34lbs with the 4 knot method I talked about and I have not once met trouble with "racquet trouble" compared to those who use the shortcut method you insist on being better. In fact the stringers around where I live all use your method and they have been breaking racquets at 28lbs, which has led to people believing the "curse of the 30lbs string job" which is totally scientifically untrue.

    I know and have read that you personally have trouble with trying to get your stringjobs to maintain tension at the tie off but have you tried looking at the way you tie your end knots?
     
  15. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    There is a reason why Yonex recommends their own 2 piece, 4 knot method and we all know that they are one company who totally hate cases of people (especially those who are new to badminton) returning broken racquets, especially those which are strung with the 2 knot method. Does that ring a bell ;)
     
  16. SkiLLz

    SkiLLz Regular Member

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    Why do you take everything so out of context, do you even know how to read?

    - your first fault here is that you ASSUME that i do one-piece stringing, not once did I state that I do it. i'm merely stating a fact that there is more tension loss on a 4 knot than a 2 knot (which you agreed on in your "First of all... " post. i don't care if it's 0.5-2lbs loss, it is tension loss regardless.

    - learn about 1 piece stringing before you argue, you again, ASSUME that I'm doing it one way when there are many ways to do it

    - and stop over exaggerating everything and coming up with your own statistics, it's not credible especially with the untruthful facts that you spit out. you can't just say that 4 knot stringing is better than 2 knot stringing based on your experience WITHOUT providing any facts or credible statistics. another forum poster can say that 4 knot stringing jobs break racquest more than 2 knot then who are you going to believe?
    - then you lie about how i think that 1 piece stringing is a shortcut method i insist on is being better? where in my posts did i ever say that?

    - then you go again making up facts that you think stringers in your area break racquets more with 1 piece racquets, how do you know that it's just from the string job? do you know for a fact that there were no cracks? do you know for a fact that all the players are not framing the racquet or clashing it with their partners creating micro tears?

    "I know and have read that you personally have trouble with trying to get your stringjobs to maintain tension at the tie off but have you tried looking at the way you tie your end knots?"
    - clearly you DON'T know how to read, take some classes and come back and re-read it, then maybe you wont look so dumb
     
  17. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    The tension loss you are talking about is immediate with the 4 knot job. However in the 2 knot job the tension loss is through the stretching of the string as it after the completion of the job. This is less apparent with the 4 knot job because if you study Physics, you will know that the 2 shorter strings will stretch less overall and in total compared to that 1 long piece of string.

    Naturally, you can ALWAYS COMPENSATE for the immediate tension loss by adding more tension before you tie off. You can of course add more tension to compensate for the stretching in the 2 knot job but that will take a while and not to mention luck in waiting before you can get your actual desired tension.

    Now I really do not understand you. How can you not know how to do a 1 piece 2 knot string job when you can already do a 2 piece 4 knot job? Doing a 4 knot job is akin to running and the 2 knot job akin to walking. Do you have any idea that the 1 piece 2 knot job is so much easier to teach to a new stringer? It seems that you do not understand that most stringers who string for the sake of stringing and earning a little dough will always do the 2 knot method to save time.

    But seriously, for me to explain to you how much I know about the 2 knot pattern is a total waste of time as you do not seem to have common sense in this matter. And for you to say that the 2 knot method has only one tie off knot (you call it manual knot) naturally points to your knowledge of starting the 2 knot pattern from one side of the racquet (thus now already having one starting knot which can be pulled and tightened on the other end and thus "no longer manual" in your dictionary) and then ending with the tie off knot at the end.

    But do you know that you can also do the 2 knot method with 2 "manual knots"?

    Like I have said before, there is a reason why Yonex recommends the 4 knot method and voids the warranty of the racquet even if it is strung within their warranted tension once the stringer does the 2 knot job on the racquet.

    I have already mentioned the existence of a transition point where the main string gets pulled perpendicularly at one point on the racquet frame which creates a pivot point where the string can stretch and sometimes deform the racquet frame. Do you know that the main and cross strings do not all stretch equally during impact with a shuttle that has not landed exactly spot-on the sweet spot?

    It is only in my personal experience that the 4 knot string job is much more stable compared to he 2 knot job. If you think that is a "better" argument then suit yourself.

    I don't think you read what I wrote properly.

    There you go, Mr. Amnesia, or Mr. Ignorant/In Denial:

    If that does not translate to a "relatively better" argument then I have no idea what kind of argument school you go to.

    I hung out with the stringers when the breakage occurred. The stringers were stringing pretty new albeit low quality counterfeit racquets (in different occasions of course if you can't figure that out) and the weak graphite just could not take it anymore. I have strung the same type of low quality racquets with the 4 knot method at the same tensions where the breakage I have seen occurred and they behaved much more tamely due to the higher stability of the method, even though I cannot promise how long the racquet can last from being played due to the weak graphite.

    But of course should I be convincing you at this point? I believe the next thing you will be arguing is that you are a professional stringer compared to a measly amateur like me or that you are the Prime Minister of Canada.

    [You all see it now how much has this fellow is straying from the arguments?]

    I agree that I misread that on my part, but damage has been done..
     
  18. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    wow. gentlemen. please calm down.

    for now. i am going to close this thread temporarily. hopefully that means involved parties will calm down and hopefully come back with a more peaceful mind before contributing to the discussion again.
     
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