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Stringers been stringing for ages, our tensions do not match

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by DuckFeet, Jun 26, 2014.

  1. DuckFeet

    DuckFeet Regular Member

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    So I think maybe my machine is ANOTHER 3lb over again as my old 24lb ti70 rings way higher than a 28lb karakal done on a wise(?) electronic head by a seasoned stringer. Either I'm WAY off the mark still or they haven't calibrated in a while, or are just plain lying?

    Note, the users are happy so the actual poundage is moot. I'm not knocking anyone's work. I guess existing tension and match it, adjust accordingly, even if I think I'm stringing 16lb or whatever. I just find it odd! I check my frequency vs other stringers here and seems ok within 1lb perhaps. I've never gone over 28lb / 1300 hz and currently using 26lb BG66U, to be redone at 24 next time. So pretty modest but there is no way I'm handling 29lb+ on that with my matchstick arms. MarkA old racquet done at 33lb vs850 measured (after some use) and felt like 27 to me, so that sounds about right. I bought a fishing scale that reads 1lb over what I think it should be, confirmed by weighing a 16lb car wheel for comparison. Also 32lb bg80p lasting months of hard misshits just doesn't sit right so I can't see that I'm still under-reading.

    Just for discussion, what's going on here? Does anyone else experience this?
     
  2. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    If your tension, string and frequency matches most of those posted on BC, ie. kwun, MarkA, and mine, then your seasoned stringer is off. Not to say it's bad, but just differences in stringing technique, flow etc.

    But most importantly is that his 29 lbs will feel like your 24 lbs, so adjust accordingly. As long as he's consistent. Or try another stringer. ;)
     
  3. zombie0517

    zombie0517 Regular Member

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    There are many factors contributing to the difference. First of all, I would assume the Wise head is in good working order, and hence the tension is accurate as it self-calibrates everytime it is powered on.

    1. Pre-weave. If the racquet is pre-weave the actual tension is lower due to friction between strings.
    2. Tension mode, pre-stretch and pull speed. If the tension head is set at Lock out that will result in a lower tension than constant pull. A faster pull speed might results in a quicker tension loss. Pre-stretch does the otherwise.
    3. Clamp and clamp base. Other things being equal, the use of fixed clamps produces higher tension than flying ones. for fixed clamps, tension could be lost if clamp jaw is not properly adjusted or the clamps base is not solid.
    4. String pattern and techniques. Different patterns often results in minor differences in tension. Not to disrespect your stringer but sometimes doing it a long time does not necessarily mean the same as doing quality job. Little details such as straightening crosses when pulling and tying knots properly can all contribute.

    Also just a reminder that if you were to compare the frequency your setup has to be very similar, if not the same, to the conditions of the mentioned BC stringers. Racquet frame, string thickness/type, tensioning mechanism can all make you comparing apples and oranges :)

    Just my two cents :p
     
  4. DuckFeet

    DuckFeet Regular Member

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    Good comments, thanks. So higher tension result =better stringer? :p
    I'm generally within 10hz of trying to match other jobs I've done. Save for learning that Carlton result is usually 1lb over.

    I just can't believe our results are 6lb apart. That's a lot!

    Again, not knocking anyone, just shocked. People I've compared to have many more happy customers than me. So far...
     
  5. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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    Interesting..Zombie0517 definitely raises all the right points of all the variables that need to be considered when it comes to string frequency.

    I've started in 2014 to collect all the frequencies of every racket I string into my stringing log application in hopes of mining the data based on string type (& possibly racket model if i have a large enough sample - only 350 data points) to get some sort of average frequency for a specified tension. Obviously it will vary based the above variables mentioned. For the most part, i'm within +/- 10Hz of frequency if i strung 2 "identical" model rackets with the same string and tension.

    The frequency measured and posted on the forums will definitely be different depending on when you measure it. I measure the frequency within 2 minutes of finishing my string job and in order to keep my data that I've collected so far consistent. However I'm very aware that the frequency drops (a lot?) if you let it settle for 4+ hours.

    Just curious for all stringers in this forum that do measure frequency (aka [MENTION=57143]visor[/MENTION]), at what time do you measure the frequency:
    1) upon completion of stringing
    2) a few hours after completion of stringing
    3) Other

    If you're wondering what my setup is:
    Gamma 6004 + Wise 2086 (pre-stretch 10%, constant pull, speed 3) + chudek supports + toyozuki fixed clamps.
     
    #5 DarthHowie, Jun 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  6. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    I know kwun and Mark measures it immediately, within minutes of stringing. Mine is measured a day after, when I pickup from the stringer. There's usually a drop of 10-30 Hz in that period.

    For reference, 30-40 Hz is approximately 1 lb change in tension.
     
  7. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    I'd say yes, actually - technical deficiencies and corner-cutting will only ever translate into tension loss, for me (unless the stringer is so bad they get the bloody tension wrong).

    There are unavoidable variations between machines and techniques across stringers, but 6lb is quite a chasm... in an ideal world you'd have the other guy string the same racket at the same tension with the same string on your machine. Then we'd see what's what;).
     
  8. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Agree. Duckfeet you may probably want to switch from this "experienced" stringer. His other clients likely don't know any better because they're not as OCD like us, measuring the frequency. :)
     
  9. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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    Here's a small snippet of the data i collected so far grouped by string and main tension. I have the min, max and average frequency of each along with the number of rackets strung.

    I have noticed that there is variation in the frequency when the racket is the only variable (string and tension is the same). Enjoy

    string_frequency.png
     
  10. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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    And here is part 2. Hope this feeds the OCD's appetite =) Knowledge is power. Data is King!

    string_frequency2.png
     
  11. DuckFeet

    DuckFeet Regular Member

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    I'm all the stringer I need right now :) I've not using anyone else's work since I got my own machine.

    Just comparing my work to others. Mainly so I get people to try MY racquets for a reference point or someone might get a shock when they get 6lb over... It was fun enough when I was using my unadjusted scale at 3 over. Hence it's not fair to let another stringer loose on my machine.

    I've had two stringers. I am confident one was on the money tension-wise (that's you Dave). As long as both he and his clients are happy with the results it doesn't matter what the actual tension is. When I asked for an actual 24 and got maybe 18, then there is a problem.
     
  12. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Heavens to murgatroyd - 1300 on VS850 at 26? I only got 1320 at 30/32!

    Still, I'm confident - my WISE is spookily accurate.
     
  13. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Yeah, the BG65 is higher than I have experienced unless, How much extra do you(Darth) go on the crosses? I see the listing is mains tension. thanks.
     
  14. ucantseeme

    ucantseeme Regular Member

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    FME the frequencies seems to be pretty high. What's your Main/cross ratio. Do you use proportional stringing for the cross?
     
  15. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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