Thanks for visiting us!

Badminton Central is a free community for fans of badminton! If you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community users, it takes less than 15 seconds! Everybody is welcome here.

Click here for a FREE account!

** Stringway cross-stringer for badminton**

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by stringtechno, May 5, 2011.

  1. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    engineer
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Silentheart, I would like to understand your role in this discussion? Anyway by playing the opposition you invite me to explain more about the tool.



    The question is why you doubt my text:
    - If I say I put in all crosses from the bottom, you say I have to weave the first one by hand.
    - If I say you can use the tool until 3 to 4 you say 4 to 5.

    As I show in the picture you enter the first cross string at the throat also with the tool.


    Weaving the free strings at each side goes very automatically going under – over for the first and over under for the last one.

    I did not put it through the holes because it was suggested earlier in this discussion to measure only the weaving time.

    I have been in quite some discussions about the cross stringers and I have learnt that part of the stringers in the discussion only use the discussion to tell how fast they are.
    So Yulitle weaves a tennis cross in 5 seconds.
    This tool does a badminton cross in 10,2 seconds.
    And you do it faster?
    Wow, you must be fast because others in this discussion said it took them 12 to 15 seconds!
     
  2. maa2003

    maa2003 Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,696
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    as like the above, still no prove for your claim ...
    sorry, you just want to sell your product ....


     
  3. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    engineer
    Location:
    Netherlands
    I am not proving anything I am just explaining and try to find out if the product would be a useful addition to the market by communicating with the market.



    This is really amazing, you seem to be intrigued by the thought that companies only want to be in contact with the market to sell products.
    We do not even have this tool yet, but we are almost certain that we will sell a lot as soon as we have them, because we got many requests for them already based on the Tennis units that we sell. And we think that we will sell more badminton units then for tennis.

    In this way it seems impossible to communicate with users.
     
  4. maa2003

    maa2003 Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,696
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    dang ............
     
  5. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    engineer
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Wow, do you read earlier posts before you throw in yours or not:
    We have a proto but no production unit so we can do all kind of tests.
     
  6. kenzo

    kenzo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    No one cares about your arbitrary measurements and your blatant misdirections, so just carry on spreading your FUD instead of being communicative, tool.
     
  7. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    4,366
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    USA
    Dear Mr. Kenzo,
    Give Stringway a little chance to see where this can go. Yes, I still have my doubt.
    To Stringtechno,
    regarding your question.
    The question is why you doubt my text:
    - If I say I put in all crosses from the bottom, you say I have to weave the first one by hand.
    - If I say you can use the tool until 3 to 4 you say 4 to 5.

    As I show in the picture you enter the first cross string at the throat also with the tool.
    Based on your picture, you will still hand weave from A7 to A11. So that is 4. Some none YY racquet and other player might want an additional 1 cross on A6. Hence 4~5 hand weave.
    Based on your post before that this tool will work 1 side only. So if you position your tool at first throat, it will not fit. Why? In your picture, your tool is wider than 18 mains. First cross is only 18 main wide.
    Regarding
    Weaving the free strings at each side goes very automatically going under – over for the first and over under for the last one.
    Actually, not necessary. You might want to set up that way, but I might not depend on the racquet and if I want to avoid cross string on the frame.

    FYI, I have always measure weaving time based on inserting the string through then weave then exit through the other end. If you are just measuring pure weaving time between first string to the last, my time is about 7~9 sec depend on where the string is. Sorry for the misunderstanding there.
     
  8. kenzo

    kenzo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    I gave him a chance. We've already established that the tool only has a market for inexperienced stringers and lazy people. We've also already established the product's flaws and seeing as the design isn't going to change, the whole argument is now swings and roundabouts.
     
  9. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    engineer
    Location:
    Netherlands
    That sounds quite impressive.
    I hope you do not mind that we take the tool in production without your approval.
     
  10. kenzo

    kenzo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    I think everyone here already has the impression that you didn't need the approval of anyone to make this product, even before you made this thread. You had no intention of seeking any criticism whatsoever, this thread was simply a PR act from the start. You get what you ask for and that certainly wasn't criticism, so I can think of a better use for your product, you can take it and kindly shove it where the sun don't shine
     
    #50 kenzo, May 19, 2011
    Last edited: May 19, 2011
  11. biomik

    biomik Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    frankly if i were a moderator I'd ban this guy from UK for rudeness
     
  12. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    26,910
    Likes Received:
    11
    Occupation:
    Professional Badminton Coach & Badminton Promoter
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    I like this weaving trick

    .
    Sad to say, some BCers can be rude. :eek::eek::eek:

    IMHO, this tool could be useful for new stringers who are slow to hand weave.

    More experienced stringers would find this tool unnecessary; when it can only save around 1 minute to string 1 racket.

    Anyway, this is a beginning to make improvement for how to string faster. I like the weaving trick posted by Ouchee;

    .
     
  13. kenzo

    kenzo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    Except that you aren't, and egocentric authoritarian people like you shouldn't be moderators. What's the rule, respect my opinion and I'll respect yours?
     
  14. yan.v

    yan.v Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,417
    Likes Received:
    7
    Occupation:
    Master Racket Technician (MRT) & Certification Tes
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    I do think this tool can be useful for most people if designed right.

    If it can save just one minute to an experienced stringer, well it's one minute. If you string many rackets in a day, maybe it can allow you to string one more at the end of the day.

    Also, most people in this thread just say "I weave a cross in X seconds". However, that is probably just a one time try or their fastest time. If that is the case, it might not be realistic to consider that it takes that much time for each cross string. Weaving a cross string can take more time (I know it takes me more time anyways) after the 15th cross or so since you have less and less space for your arms to weave the string freely. Sometimes you can also misweave or just take more time because you lack concentration.

    I think that at worst, it would make experienced stringers save a couple seconds, and beginners save a couple minutes, which already sounds reasonable if the price of the device isn't too high.

    This is the kind of product that benefits from customer feedback a lot and multiple iterations can lead to really good products. I know I'll be wanting to buy and try the product when it comes out if it is not too expensive.
     
  15. biomik

    biomik Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    there is a subtle difference between expressing your opinion (some product is not useful or whatever) and asking them to shove it. However, if you are over 16, it is possibly too late to teach you to see the difference.
     
  16. kenzo

    kenzo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    That's all well and good assuming purely opinions were expressed by both parties. It takes some special kind of narcissist to come into a thread and force their values onto everyone else while contributing absolutely nothing to the thread. While we're on the subject of teaching since you seem to be so inclined of forcing your beliefs on others, let me teach you a little bit about hypocrisy. See, you are entitled to accuse someone of being rude provided that you aren't being rude yourself, otherwise doing so is hypocritical and makes you look like the half-wit you appear to be. I'll congratulate you for your attempt at patronisation, though, keep it up.
     
  17. kenzo

    kenzo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    If it can save one minute. A lot of us believe it cannot, and we believe it would only work for 76 grommet systems, (not 72 grommet systems) up to the top 5 crosses stringing bottom to top. Stringtechno hasn't commented on the issue of grommet systems and hasn't provided any timed videos of the tool's use on badminton rackets as of yet for comparison. Judging from the prices of the tennis cross stringer, be prepared to pay $80+ US. I don't know about the times quoted, but the times I quoted were the averages for stringing the middle 10 crosses (the fastest ones to do)
     
  18. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    4,366
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    USA
    1) Please define "design right". I asked Stringtechno and his original goal was to use it for all string except top 1 and throat 1. My question is, can it be done? He even admit that the tool has to stop at top 4.
    2) given that my average weave time (based on def from stringtechno) is ~8-9 sec for the middle 11 cross. The tool has no advantage for me as now on speed.
    3) Yes, I string average 15 racquets a week. And I can tell you that on average, It take me 25 min per racquet given the racquet tension is less than 26lb. The main issue here is that Stringtechno is using his def of weaving time. Since we know the def now and by timing it his way, we find that there is not a big advantage or significant advantage at this point.
    4) Please be more specific, a couple sec per racquet or per cross? Assume it can save me 3 sec per cross. That will give me about 30 sec per racquet given the tool can do main 10 cross. Will it be worth it for me? It is a big if to me.
    5) We try to give feed back on the possible problem and he just keep on telling us it works without testing or solid evident. He keep pumping up his tool and finally he draw the picture and notice the last 4~5 crosses will be an issue. That is what I got frustrated.

    Please understand, this is 2nd time he tried to promote this tool without a proto-type to back it up. I have done all I can to help stringtechno. I will sign off on this thread for now.

    Good luck to stringtechno.
     
  19. kenzo

    kenzo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    Very well said.
     
  20. yan.v

    yan.v Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,417
    Likes Received:
    7
    Occupation:
    Master Racket Technician (MRT) & Certification Tes
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    1) Designed right = practical. Hoping that the designer can come up with a way to string as any crosses as possible with the tool (preferably up to 16+ crosses.
    2 & 3) Comparing your weaving time without the tool and with the tool should be done practically before dismissing any claim or argument I think. Right now, he has no proof that the tool will have benefits, but we don't have proofs that it won't either. Maybe that we should wait until the tool is out before dismissing any belief that it can work before it even goes out on the market.
    The base of the idea is: "We want to create a tool that makes weaving faster and easier", and I think everyone here likes the idea and wish it is possible. All we can do is make suggestions to improve the design instead of pointing out problems and saying the tool is useless. If the designer does not want to change the design, it's his choice. If the product fails on the market, he'll know why.
    4) Yes, a couple seconds per racket for someone who weaves very fast. Of course if the tool's price is 80$ US, I don't even think it'd be worth it for a beginner.
    5) Yes he does not seem to be welcoming much of the feedback, but you guys are not helping either. It seems more like you already want the product to fail than help improving it. I think there are issues with both parties' communication.

    I'd rather think the product will make miracles than expect it to be bad right off the bat. If it's bad, too bad. I'll just have wasted like 10 minutes reading reviews of the tool and will go back to normal stringing. If it's ok or better, great! It'll be a base to improve from and make better tools.

    Also, maybe we can ask StringTechno why the product wasn't released when he first tried a couple years ago.
     

Share This Page