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Stringway/Wise/gamma

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by Matsumo, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. Matsumo

    Matsumo Regular Member

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    I was looking on youtube for a stringway/badminton video. Couldnt find much.

    only some movies from one of the stringway agents:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PZ9QNoLj1w

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZpec4RVFtI

    Does anyone has some info on the shape of the rackethead after stringing?REally worried about deformation(flathead)
    no doubt the dropweigth system is better than conventional style en 10 year warranty is pretty awsome. I heard great things about the build quality. Mounting procedure looks a bit slow but that wouldnt be a problem if the end result is good.

    Really thinking of buying one. I have challenger at the moment. And i have some options:

    And a wise in holland costs 650 euro incl mountingplate etc.(200 euro over budget)
    and it has 2 year warranty i think. For me it would be a great loss if the wise would break down after that period.
    Gamma is only obtainable abroad. and is same price as stringway like 450 euro excl shipping! Thats for a standard dropweight system with fixed clamps.

    For me its not about speed or luxary but i just want to deliver a good stringjob and i want a low maintanance machine.

    So maybe extra question:D what could you suggest me?
     
  2. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    drop weight is just too painfully slow.
     
  3. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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    For a while in North America they were branded as LaserFibre machines.
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php/22331-Laserfibre-MS200TT-Review

    There's a ton of information in that thread with the stringway machine. I started out with a stringway machine. Terrific machine and low maintenance but stringing a single racket took a little over an hour for me. It became too slow as the volume of rackets i got increased.
    For the same money, it's better to start with a machine that you know has the option to be upgraded with the WISE in the future.

    Over time you can always switch to better supports (michal chudek supports) and later a wise if you still enjoy stringing or the volume of rackets increase. It's better to leave flexibility and options open for the future.
     
  4. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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    One thing to note...about the machine...it's best to go Top Down for the crosses instead of bottom up simply due to the design of the machine and how the hold down supports are situated on the racket. Furthermore, it's not possible to clamp down the top most cross making it impossible to go bottom up.

    Here's a link to my old machine with the double action fixed clamps (only usable for mains).
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/for...our-stringing-machines!?p=1880600#post1880600

    At the time, PeteLSD and I both modified our machines so that we could get 6 points of support instead of 5.

    I spent about $1200 for that machine (bad US - CAD exchange rate in 2006). Looking back, i would've saved money if i got a crank (i.e alpha revo 4000) which i could later upgrade with a WISE.

    That's the reason why a majority of the stringers in this forum push either a 6pt drop weight or crank machine with fixed clamps as a good starting machine. It always leaves you the option to upgrade to an electronic machine. Not many people here can afford an YY ES5 Pro or a Protech 8 :D.
    Hope this helps.
     
  5. Matsumo

    Matsumo Regular Member

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    Yes, i have read the thread already, but couldnt find any information about someone who actually measured the frames afterwards.

    Right now i have the challenger. i asked a store about upgrading to a wise:

    This was the answer:

    Hello,

    you sould take this:

    http://www.tennisman.de/bespannmasc...ho-premium-stringer-3600.html?_artperpage=100

    But you must drill an extra hole in this adapter.

    Tensionhead and adapter are sold out. Next month there will come a new model of the Tensionhead, Version 12.


    And i already contacted Michal. Hey told me i could order the non-wise supports. He's working on a new adapter that i can use on the non-wise supports to make them fit on a wise installation with 360 movement. Good stuff!

    Thank you for sharing your experience with the stringway. I thought it would be quicker dan a concentional dropweight because i dont have to level it horizontally. With a normal dropweight it takes me about 30 minutes. So i thought maybe 25 minutes with a
    stringway.


     
  6. Matsumo

    Matsumo Regular Member

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    wow, nice gamma! i think you can string bottom-up now because of the badmintonsupportset. at the end of the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PZ9QNoLj1w Also love the laserfibre! too bad you couldnt use the fixed clamps for the crosses....that's terrible! it is worth thinking about a upgrade in the future indeed. Thank you
     
  7. yan.v

    yan.v Regular Member

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    "Absence" of side supports like in the last video also means higher risk of racket breaking at high tensions.
     
  8. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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    The internal supports did a very good job. Pete LSD was stringing rackets at 35 lbs with his laserfibre. When i first started, i was only comfortable with going up to 28/29 lbs.

    @Matsumoto: yes it's true that the drop weight doesn't have to be level, but both Pete and I were not "speed stringers". Our goal was to minimize tension loss. Pete double pulled each string to get rid of all the slack. i just did one pull and then waited about 2 seconds to see the weight drop a bit before i clamped. I love constant pull and that's why i skipped from the drop weight to the gamma with a wise right away. I'm not too comfortable with crank and i would require some more practice with it.
     
  9. yan.v

    yan.v Regular Member

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    I don't see internal supports ? o_O Aside from the normal 12/6 supports, the other things only seem to push the racket down.
     
  10. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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    [MENTION=75572]yan.v[/MENTION]: according to my spreadsheet i strung 635 rackets with my laserfibre since 2006 with average tensions in the 25 lbs range. I had 2 broken rackets in that period. 1 due to my own error (not the machine) and the 2nd was due to a fake racket such that when i tensioned, the string cut through the grommet & frame. I've done 384 rackets ever since i had my gamma + wise in January 2012. I have had 2 broken rackets all due to my warning the customer of cracks and the high probability that it wouldn't survive yet they still insisted.

    The laserfibre/stringway is a good and solid machine. It will be slow and does not leave room for future upgrades if you wish to get a wise.

    I believe there is a guy who posted a few years back on this forum where he took the stringway drop weight tensioner and mounted with a 6 point turntable.
     
  11. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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  12. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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    @yan.v : I understand what you mean by the fact that the supports are not at the ideal location and are not adjustable at all. It's better than a pure 2 point machine and yes it's not as good a a 6pt machine.

    However, i still believe that this machine can handle 30 lb tensioned string jobs. it's just that i was more annoyed with the time it took me to string a racket at a quality that i would be satisified with and more importantly having the hold down clamps obstruct certain areas where i couldn't clamp as close to the frame as possible.
     
  13. yan.v

    yan.v Regular Member

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    Thanks for all the precisions, I didn't notice the little red things that serve as internal supports.

    I remember a discussion between stringtechno and some guys here about the ideal position of the side supports. He somehow concluded that the ideal position for side supports was as close as possible to the top/bottom of the frame.

    I don't remember the arguments, but I do know for a fact that if I string a racket at 28+ lbs and that my supports are not closer to the 3/9 position, there is a much higher chance of the racket to break there. I've unfortunately broke one of my rackets that way when I started stringing :(

    Also, I'm not saying that this machine is bad, but those supports should be taken in consideration in the choice of the machine.
     
  14. Matsumo

    Matsumo Regular Member

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    @DarthHowie : I like the way stringway thinks outside the box. Mountingsystem, tensionsystem, cross stringers, electronic machines. I would never use a cross stringer but at least they try. I have read the laserfibre thread from PeteLSD and i have no doubt that high-tension stringing can be done on a stringway.
    Too bad it's slow but i only string rackets for a small club 75/100 rackets a year. But when i see the video's of kwun i get very enthousiastic about the wise. But i would have to string a whole year just to break even..But then again ..i just love stringing
     
    #14 Matsumo, Apr 15, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  15. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    the WISE is great. not perfect. there can be quite a few improvements to it. but for the price, it is very good value and makes the stringing process much more pleasant and consistent.
     
  16. Matsumo

    Matsumo Regular Member

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    [MENTION=2950]DarthHowie[/MENTION]: I kept thinking about what you said about not being able to tie off de crosses in the yonex pattern. Started making some calls. Dit you mount it like this? BADM. ALT5.jpg

    It should be no problem with flying clamps the store said but maybe its a problem with fixed clamps? Just wanting to make sure:) Also i heard that laserfibre where imitations of string????? i thought that technifibre made the machines for technifibre. The store claimed that stringway did not prolonque their pattent and then some companies tried to copy. I found that hard to believe.
     
  17. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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    Please see pic of how i mounted the racket here:
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...078#post420078

    This was before i bought fixed clamps, but that shouldn't matter.
    I only used fixed clamps for mains. not crosses.

    If you string crosses using YY recommendations of bottom up.. a typical fly clamp (MBS wide or small as an example) will not be clamped "straight" when you reach the top most cross. It will be obstructed by the black hold down or the knob in your attached post.

    I believe the only narrow enough fly clamp to fit at the top is the Gamma. I believe only @PeteLSD could confirm this.

    The stringway/laserfibre will force you to go top to bottom for the crosses if you care about minimizing tension loss.
     
  18. DarthHowie

    DarthHowie Regular Member

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    one other thing wrong about your attached picture is that the racket is improperly mounted on the throat end.

    the black hold downs should be above the red internal supports.
     
  19. Matsumo

    Matsumo Regular Member

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    The image was sent today by stringway... i heard they advise a new way of mounting and this is the one send by Mr Timmer this afternoon. So i guess they changed it. Saw this picture before by Mr timmer under the name stringtechno
     
  20. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

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    Direct and indirect racquet support

    Hi guys, interesting discussion about the support system.
    I
    would like to add some information to this discussion:

    When we designed our racquet support we made a computer program to calculate the stress in the racquet material for different kind of racquet supports.

    Our 5 point direct (inside) system is the result of this development.

    Many people think that it is important to minimize the deformation of the racquet during stringing but this is not true (while it may sound very logic).

    A racquet does not break because the deformation is it too high it brakes because the stress (force per square millimeter) is too high in any place.

    The graph shows the stress in a racquet for different racquet supports.

    [URL="http://imageshack.us/a/img189/2774/racquetstress.jpg%5b/IMG"]http://imageshack.us/a/img189/2774/racquetstress.jpg[/IMG[/URL]]

    [IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img189/4038/racquetstressd.jpg

    This graph shows:
    - The minimum stress occurs with a 3 point inside system.
    - The stress goes up with an indirect (outside system) when you get closer to 3 and 9 o’clock.
    Therefore it is dangerous to string a badminton racquet with the supports too far away from the head.

    From this development we learned:

    - That the systems have to be divided in direct and indirect systems.

    [URL="http://imageshack.us/a/img27/9536/direktindirekt.jpg%5b/IMG"]http://imageshack.us/a/img27/9536/direktindirekt.jpg[/IMG[/URL]]

    [IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img291/987/stressinracquet.jpg

    - The stress in the racquet and the change of breaking is lower with a direct system.
    - With direct systems it does not make much difference for the racquet if we bottom up or top down.
    - That outside support CAUSE extra stress in the racquet and raise the change of cracks.

    I would like to know why because we advise to go bottom up.

    I would like to know why this is, our tournament stringers use the fixed clamps for all strings.

    We made the machines for Laserfibre. Our tensionhead was patented in 1983 so that patent is not valid anymore and Eagnas copied our tensioner in 2010.

    We do advise to support badminton racquets as shown on the picture above so that the wider throatside of the racquet is supported by 3 supports.

    There is a very simple solution when the last cross can not be clamped with a fixed clamp:
    - Skip the cross before the last one and enter the last one first.
    - Then enter the one before last and pull “knot tension” on both.
    - Clamp the string before the last one.
     

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