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Taufik Hidayat's Attitude and Opinion about the All England

Discussion in 'Indonesia Professional Players' started by repentedboy, Jul 20, 2012.

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  1. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    In post 22, I was just stating my observations based on the historical research I have done and can recall from 2005 onwards. In post 24, you reacted by accusing me of attacking and defaming some godly player and cc someone. I am giving my conclusions based on facts. You can also come out with your own conclusions which may be opposite to mine based on the SAME facts. One fine day, when I ace my IT skills, I will lift out the relevant facts for you to see. From those facts and observations ( not limited to mine), BCers could actually predict CHN player outcome with uncanny accuracy. BC actually becomes quite investigative because the minds thankfully don t agree.( You could go read some CHN professionals threads which are mind killers because the posts echo one another. )And then you guys accuse me of defaming and attacking you.....please use a world class dictionary like the World Book Dictionary (2 volumes) if you want to be clear about my English.
     
  2. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    C'mon,anybody can claim any player to be The Greatest of All but you will have to try and convince others by backing up your assertion with facts,proofs where available, a cogent argument and well-reasoned,persuasive viewpoints - all without personal attacks. Then it's up to the other party to agree or disagree by offering his reasons. But do bear in mind that what one writes and how one presents one's case will reflect on oneself.

    In the end,even with the best of intentions and after observing ethical standards and etiquette, we still disagree with each other, so what? Surely there is no need to antagonize each other like that. What do we gain or lose other than our egos and (false) pride?

    Robert Hume has said when emotions come in,reason is thrown out the door. Let's face it,how many of us will actually say 'after thinking over what you've said, I realize I'
    m wrong ,you're right, I hereby discard my wrong views and embrace yours,thank you'? The very few who do, and one can be found in this forum,win my utmost respect and admiration. For most people,the most that they do is to say 'let's agree to disagree' to save face,right? How many of us are selfless truthseekers?
     
  3. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ..so basically you're saying the AE pretty much has lost its luster after the WC and the Olympics started?
    So, to all the LCW, based on that thinking, him winning the 2010 & 2011 AE is nothing major..In other words, LCW hasn't won any major tourney ever..?
    i shudder to think that one day AE will be totally relegated to just another tourney!:eek:
    ;)..;)..;)
    If Taufik played in only 7-10 AE, then LCW, i believe, played even less in less AE tourneys (someone please do a double check on this). And YET, LCW was able to win & grab back to back AE titles (one of which by beating LD).:cool:
    if comparing the number of tourneys & titles won, yes, LCW should be ahead of Taufik..Taufik only gets the benefit of the doubt because of his WC & OG titles (and maybe the AG MS title to boot). If one strips away those major titles from Taufik, his record of winning tourneys will be almost similar to...Chen Jin..:eek:

    * :p..knew this topic is gonna be mucho caliente..;)
     
    #43 ctjcad, Jul 23, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  4. repentedboy

    repentedboy Regular Member

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    To an extent in Super Series term, yes that is true but not as low as Chen Jin. At least he wins more titles than Chen Jin.
     
  5. eaglehelang

    eaglehelang Regular Member

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    The mods havent come to close this thread? They must be busy working, it's still daytime in some parts of the world
     
  6. flite

    flite Regular Member

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    Only IF......:confused: if one strips away all major titles from any of the players so what is there left to debate about? Its not only applicable to TH. What happen to LD IF i were to strip away all his majors?
     
  7. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Comparing the AE prize reward being less than other SS with more prize money, the WC and OG (and maybe AG) offer a big fat zero prize money, only medals, to the winners in comparison to the AE...yet they are still considered "better" than the AE?..

    That's right folks, looking at the bigger picture of this post/topic, it all relates to LCW (as well as other AE winners) as well whether one likes it or not..
     
    #47 ctjcad, Jul 23, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  8. bad's fan

    bad's fan Regular Member

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    taufik is free to say what he want, but i maybe won't agree with him. if only AE title is not that important, why did LD so happy when he won it for the 1st time in 2004 (please CMIIW)? so does LCW , she was so happy, so expressive when he won it 1st time in 2010? you can see what happen when LCW win a SSP tournament, he is almost flat, not too much expression. but when come to win AE, i think we can see how happy he was. and it's not only LCW. it's also applied to many others players.
    AE maybe not important to taufik, just another SSP title, and some badminton fans might think like that also. but for most of the players, the AE still has it's own prestige, even with WC around every year.
    my question would be: if, only IF, taufik did manage to won 1 AE title, would he still saying the same statement?
    just IMO, peace. :)
     
    #48 bad's fan, Jul 23, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  9. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    i've no problem for you or anyone else to rate player A above player B for whatever reasons. you have your opinion and reasoning and i respect that.

    for me, it's all about winning and record. I dont have the privilege to watch any of Hartono's matches but I will consider he is one of the best. because of his 8 AE titles, they are history and in the record book.

    we have to look at players' achievement, not what if, or what would have happened etc.

    TH, like it or not, was Olympics Champion, world champion, asian games champion, and LCW 2 AE titles, that's all really.

    So, for me TH is ahead of LCW.
     
  10. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    CJ did not celebrate when he won AE. His expression was like, this is just another title or maybe, the money is not enough. I will go for Korea Open , anytime. Or INA Open when it offers more $$$ than Korea Open. The previous prestige of AE cannot last if the prize money does not keep up with inflation. The glamour, the tradition is great but show me the money!
     
  11. uselessmail

    uselessmail Regular Member

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    Oh common now! Just put it behind now. Let us all collectively accept that neither TH nor LD nor LCW is the 'supreme greatest'. Everyone is awesome in their own right and get their due respect from each other on and off the court.

    In fact the current best player in the world is definitely P Kashyap (my countryman of course!) :D. You can ask anyone in India (anyone who's ever heard of him of course!;)) and we'll all attest to that!

    So lets just bury t hatchet and move on!!
     
  12. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ..with a more reserved personality, did you expect CJ to do a robot dance & strip down ala LinDan after LD beat LCW in the 2010 TC?..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oaVQwbBAWc (CJ's celebration @ 6:35)..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtK-g-EQjc0 (LD's robot dance)..
     
  13. bad's fan

    bad's fan Regular Member

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    you maybe right about the money. but i think it depends on the players themselves, how they see the AE tournament. some player maybe fight for money as for the others SS/P, but maybe some players see it more than it. i don't know. :)
     
  14. flite

    flite Regular Member

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    In terms of natural talent and skills wise, TH is one of the best shuttler out there on par with ZJH. In this department he is definitely better than LD (who is very much a developed player) that does not make any headlines during his teenage years as a player. OTH, at just 17 y.o where most players at this age is still fighting for the world junior champion accolade, TH was already playing in the AE Finals.

    On his achievements, he has 2 AG (1 more than LD), 1 OG, 1 WC, multiple Thomas Cup winner (6 times to LD's 5)as well as winning the IO 6 times as well (not SS yet as a matter of timing) to boast. He achieved all these before LD (without any help;)) and you simply cannot expect someone who'd started his career in the professional circuit during the late 90's to still conquer the badminton world in current years.

    Anyway titles won is not exactly the most accurate way to rate a player. Talent and natural abilities are more so as these are gifted. They exudes certain court craft that left the spectators in awe. It couldn't be trained or developed.

    So, for me TH is ahead of LCW and LD.
     
    #54 flite, Jul 23, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  15. *chance*

    *chance* Regular Member

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    I'm a huge Taufik fan, but didn't he only win the Thomas Cup in 2002? oô
     
  16. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    Twice actually, 2000 as well...
     
  17. flite

    flite Regular Member

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    Correction. TH participated in TC 6 times (not won it) and was the winner in 2000 and 2002.

    Thanks for highlighting. My bad!
     
  18. repentedboy

    repentedboy Regular Member

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    Lin Dan won 5 Thomas Cups (unbeaten in all finals), won 4 WCs in six appearances, won 5 All England out of 8 final appearances, won 5 China Open, 4 China Masters, 5 Hong Kong Open, 3 Denmark Open and many more.

    Seems like Taufik is only good in his own backyard, elsewhere he seems "not so dominant".....talent doesnt seem to make a difference here in terms of titles counts

    Lin Dan (49 + many more to come) >> Taufik (only 23 titles)
     
  19. flite

    flite Regular Member

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    Nope! Besides the I.O all TH majors are won outside of Indonesia. Unlike LD, the 08' Olympic and 10' AG are won in his own backyard.

    Ans so what! LD can carry on winning up to 100 titles but to me that is not exactly the benchmark I am looking for to justify a player's greatness as what already stated in my previous post.
     
    #59 flite, Jul 23, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  20. bad's fan

    bad's fan Regular Member

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    as chance and LD rules stated, he did win it in 2000 and 2002 (CMIIW), so from when are the rest 4?

    talent is one factor of course, but when someone can't convert talent to some achievements, what is the use of talent then in this case?

    i'm not sure if TH is the most talented player in the world (but of course, he maybe is!), but then i would prefer players like LD and LCW (as you may stated as the less talented ones in this case) because they're willing to work hard in compensation for their lack of talent. and yes, the history already showed us that in this case, player with less talent + work harder achieved more than player with the best talent but indiscipline.

    yes, LCW might haven't win any OG, AG or WC, but he's simply dominating the superseries tournament and hold the WR#1 for 3 years or more. he's just a bit unlucky because there is another player as good as him in his path in the form of LD.
    compare TH to LD? beside have 1 AG gold medal more than LD, what else?
    so to say TH is ahead of LCW and LD, for me, maybe yes in term of talent. but just it! in the term of achievement, the record said it all. i would rated LCW and LD ahead of him.

    peace :)
     
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