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Taufik Hidayat's smashes

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by ChocoChipWaffle, Jun 6, 2005.

  1. ChocoChipWaffle

    ChocoChipWaffle Regular Member

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    How does this guy produce such devestating smashes... i know they are all from three concepts, physique, practice, and technique, but let's be realistic here...

    1.) Physique= this guy has less muscles than alot of other pros... he is not built AT ALL! Yet, he can smash harder than those bigger guys, so his secret doesn't lie in the physique.

    2.) Practice- Of course, he practices, but he is FAMOUS for playing hookey during practice sessions, and sometimes not take it so seriously. Compared to most other pros such as lin dan, shon seung mo, etc. he is not considered as a player who practices alot. Definetly, the secret of his smash doesn't lie in practice either...

    3.) That means it's his technique that makes the difference, and i got this far. And then, it stumped me... i watched his videos several times when he was playing, and even his smash form during slow motion... but i just can't get a crystal-clear answer to his power. I think he sort of loosens his arm like sort of a whip, but then, i am not an expert at this stuff. Can u guys help me what he does different that makes his smashes stand out?>

    p.s. when i said his smashes stood out from other players, i'm not considering ppl like Ha tae kwon, kdm, lin dan, or jens eriksen, as they are clearly MUCH MUCH more built and bigger than him...
     
  2. Robin (SWE)

    Robin (SWE) Regular Member

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    Good question:) but I disagree with some of your statements, and frankly find some ridiculous. For example, claiming that taufik "isn't built at ALL" is just juvenile and ignorant since he obviously were 'built' enough to win the 2004 Olympic GOLD Medal!! For me that is an incredibel and extremely respectable achivement...not to mention all the international tornaments that he completely owned/ruled!

    When you talk down on him practicing in a not-so-serious way it shows some research needs to be done before commenting on one of, if not the, worlds best badminton player! Obviously his "natural flow", as tv commentators say, helps him and MIGHT lead to him not having to spend as many hours on the court as all those other pro players.

    When studying someones smash it is not just to take it out of context and look at his tecnique and movements. One of the most importants factors in a successful ("devastating" as you say) smash is the game leading up to it and where his opponents are at and how ready they are(atleast at this level). Please don't forget to investigate other factors as well as it might lead you to wrong conclusions otherwise.

    Regarding about Taufik's size and Lin Dan's... dude, L.D. is not "MUCH MUCH more built and bigger " than Taufik. There is some difference, I'm sure, but certainly not a 5 feet and 100 pounds difference.

    Tips for ChocoChipWaffle: If it wasn't for some 'hollow' facts it is a good question. Try to write stuff you're sure about next time... and not to claim things like in this one. If you're unsure about something then just write a question/post and someone will answer it sooner or later with substantial sources to his facts.

    Personally I believe a good smash is roughly something like 6 parts tecnique 3 parts physique +some for the equipment. And really I find the reason for Taufik's "devastating" smashes to be a combination of his play previous in the rally and the fact that he is one of the worlds top badminton player.

    Now I'm done wasting time at this post. Didn't make this a ChocoChipWaffle bashing post but rather a request for ppl to check their sources 'n facts before claiming this and that.:)

    laters all
     
  3. Brave_Turtle

    Brave_Turtle Regular Member

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    Hey, this is a tough one to answer. By devasting smash do you mean sucessful smash or powerful smash?

    Some players doesn't really smash hard but has very steep angle and placement.

    I personally think that Taufik has one of the most powerful and fast parallel smash . I think this power comes from his technique, wrist power and weight transfer.

    He has one of the best technique in the circuit. Even tough his footwork is not as fluid as Gade, he can do miracles with his wrist.
     
  4. Azwok

    Azwok Regular Member

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    I was kinda in disagreement with you about this point and in agreement with choccochip. Taufik isn't a very built player at all, as I find is often commented on at tournaments (by the commentators). I geuss the best guy to answer this question would be ants;) . But generally Taufik would not be considered a "built" player.

    Again something which was mentioned by commentators about his smash, was that it is very tough to read, which is so true, it looks identical whether straight or cross court.

    Azwok.
     
  5. Qidong

    Qidong Regular Member

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    Isn't most of the power come from the wrist? Probably it''s hard to tell how strong his wrist is just by looking.
     
  6. other

    other Regular Member

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    mmm so that's the reason behind his "devastating" smash;)
     
  7. New_Guy04

    New_Guy04 Regular Member

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    i don't understand... what does his physique and muscles have anything to do with winning the gold medal?:confused: It's almost like you are saying u need to be macho in order to win the olympic gold medal... are u talking bout BUILT terms of tournament trophees?:D


    And also Robin (SWE), i think chocochip meant that Lindan is much more BUILT than Taufik, whereas Kim dong moon and Ha Tae Kwon etc are BIGGER than taufik. And i think this is a valid statement, because obviously, Kim and Ha are MUCH bigger and Lin Dan has a freaky muscular body. However, Taufik is more on the thin side... i have an old friend who is a close friend of Taufik, and i remember this friend of mine saying that when he played with Taufik, he said he had absolutely no built up... he recalled Taufik being pretty thin , and almost seem like fragile (and trust me, my friend has played with taufik before in person, so i think he knows quite a bit about him).
     
  8. TrunkZ69

    TrunkZ69 Regular Member

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    i would say its technique and TIMING! I remember people telling me that Tony Gunawan's smash was very awkward. Because he takes a rather slow swing for a smash, but once he hit a certain point he was accelerate like a mad man in a short portion of it and whip out something rather thunderous, wait hasn't he won an Olympic gold medal too? :) I think its not really based on their size, though it may have in the beginning. It's probably wrist,technique, and timing. Kim Dong Moon may be pretty big, but slow down your videos of him and you'll see that most of his "devastating" smashing are pretty much wrist. Even Ha to a certain extent IMHO.
     
  9. coops241180

    coops241180 Regular Member

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    i think i understand what you mean by 'built' you mean physical size & muscle mass.

    since physical size and muscle mass are loosley tied to physical strength and speed it is likely that taufik could be half the size of zhang jun for instance, and still create the same sort of power.

    pracice wise. taufik is one of the most naturally talented players in the world. sadly it is reported that his mental toughness, stamina etc aren't as strong as his technical talent.

    how does he do it? simple physics: he can transfer more energy from the racquet, through racquet head speed/whip with the action he uses. whether this is all wrist, or arm, shoulder, body torque, timing, string tension, racquet flex etc. is for some crazy scientist to figure out through hours and hours of footage.

    you could probably achieve similar with practice and training. it would just take a long long time.

    ttfn

    coops
     
  10. Trance

    Trance Regular Member

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    I don't it can be purely technique that makes him more outstanding than the rest of the pros. The pros couldn't all possibly be any different in terms of technique since they all practice so much.

    I also like to point out that alot of people fail to see that alot of power in smashes and badminton swings in general are generated by the forearm muscles. With a good forearm, you could produce effective smashes as well because they work in cooperation with your wrist to create the snap. Also, when you are smashing, the wrist is moving for sure, but the forearm the muscle behind the work.

    My assumption is that Taufik probably does alot of those forearm exercises. Such as that exercise of tying rope to weights and then rolling it up with your arms or something such as that. It might not affect his biceps etc, but it is probably what helps generate all that power. ;)
     
  11. ChocoChipWaffle

    ChocoChipWaffle Regular Member

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    perhaps i need to rephrase myself because i was unclear at times... when i said "Devestating" smash, i meant powerful, not placement. or efficiency...
     
  12. Robin (SWE)

    Robin (SWE) Regular Member

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    for obvious reasons bud...
    You misunderstood tood me on this point, I meant that by winning the gold he showed that he has an excellent level of physique and certainly his fitness is amongst the best. Choko said something like "he isn't built AT ALL" which I certainly dont agree with for obvious reasons. (It was also choko who wrote "built" first and not me.......so you gotta ask him what he means by built.)

    Also its worth to concider that maybe by writing "built" choko meant that Taufik's body is appropriate for badminton? He could also have meant a high level of muscle mass but then he doesnt differ between explosive muscles(the ones that take more space) and the stamina ones(which marathon runners have plenty of).

    That seems to be the trick to his post... you gotta read between the lines and not his words...

    Anyhow, after all the terrible miswording etc I wonder if choko managed yet to find the answer to his "devastating" smash? I recon you need a good build-up in the rally before you go for the kill/smash and combined with the fact that he is one of the worlds best players...(read this new_guy) which shows he has spent countless hours on the court i.e. has the skills. Wouldn't you say?:)
     
  13. ChocoChipWaffle

    ChocoChipWaffle Regular Member

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    when i said he wasn't built, i said he is not muscular... that's what 'built' usually means..

    and lol of course i know he is fit in terms of stamina, speed etc. that's why he is a professional player... however, when i said muscular, i meant arm, chest, etc and other upper muscles... i thought i was pretty clear because i was talking bout power of SMASHES, and smashes are produced from your arms. Your legs, lats, etc can't smash the birdie for you (although it can give it some extra power, your arms are the things that makes the smashes... you can still smash hard without strong legs, but you ABSOLUTELY CAN'T smash without arms...)
     
  14. Robin (SWE)

    Robin (SWE) Regular Member

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    gotcha man:D It is a good question you posted and maybe it is good if you ask a player with more experience to explain it to you. Maybe the commentators said something whils you watched the videos?

    Someone else wrote that his timing is very good and his deception and placement. I totally agree to this and think this strongly contributes to a successful smash.

    How he achives such power I couldn't tell. someone else wrote that he is able to transfer power from his body onto the shuttle very well and this sounds like a very good point to consider.
     
  15. dAzEY

    dAzEY Regular Member

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    Indonesians

    Indonesians have these natural talent that give them their explosive power, like my doubles partner. He doesn't train much and yet his smashes are superb.
     
  16. Robin (SWE)

    Robin (SWE) Regular Member

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    :D and yet another example of a statement without facts to support it....
    Oh and I've got one too! Swedish people have this natural ability to withstand cold weather, for real!.... NOT:D :p
     
  17. ChocoChipWaffle

    ChocoChipWaffle Regular Member

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    Update:

    I watched Taufik's video again. It's the one against lee tsuen tseng during tc 2002 final... and i found out something that not alot of players do...

    his arm acts like a fly swatter... his arm looks like an accessory, and his body rotation looks like it does all the work. His arm acts like a whip lash.

    All i can add so far...
     
  18. AzNl3oi89

    AzNl3oi89 Regular Member

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    i think taufik generates a lot of power from his foot stomping:)
     
  19. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    power...

    I think if a test of Taufiks fast twitch muscle fibers for his right forearm where conducted, I beleive it would show that he indeed has very strong fast-twitch forearm and wrist muscles.

    These muscles have been built up by years of training, and are of course geared more towards fast twitching fibers than slow strong "bulky" fibers for big weights.. This muscles will not show like huge bicepts or bulky arm muscles.. But still doesn't mean he has "weak" arms.. I would also bet his right arm also is alot stronger than his left..

    Just think about it.. training your arm with badminton-shots many hours daily for many years with good technique.. Would it even be possible not to get strong underarm muscles from that :) :cool:

    /twobeer
     

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  20. Robin (SWE)

    Robin (SWE) Regular Member

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    Good point but I don't think there is any muscles in your wrists at all(try to flex your wrist and not your forearm in the same time:D (If you do then I'll see you on the discovery channel)). Its more like tendons and veins and 'stuff'.

    Certainly his forearm is incredibly powerful. I would like to see a documentary about professional players life. And not the kind of shallow 'n tv friendly "I-like-to-meet-my-friends" kind of documentary... but a real deep and intriguing one for hardcore badder's... that would be AWESOME:D

    Maybe information is whats lacking to get badminton the respect it deserves?
     

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