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Thaihot CHINA Open 2016 : FINALS (20th November)

Discussion in 'Korea Masters / China Open 2016' started by CLELY, Nov 19, 2016.

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  1. foliot

    foliot Regular Member

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    change.org is merely a platform for starting a petition, not an organization. Everyone can create one for a cause that they believe in, including yourself. Check out this page to find out more about the site: https://www.change.org/about
     
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  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    probably have one calendar year.
     
  3. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I know, but why didn't the very same petitioners include He Bingjiao's case happening in the very same tournament and closely related, to be consistent, instead of starting another one ? She is equally a victim of errant or rogue umpiring, that's my point, those who were up in arms about the JPN WD case were conspicuously silent, except one or two, in He Bingjiao's case.
    The missing parts:

    He was forcibly trying to get the Chinese pair to win. Forcibly ?

    *He is getting paid to cheat, please stop this madness. Who paid or bribe him? Any prove ? If true, and there's evidence, it's a police case, out of BWF's jurisdiction.

    And the title :
    CHEATING CHINESE UMPIRES - Only One Involved (apart from He Bingjiao's case where the umpire is not from China. Anybody knows where he's from?)
     
  4. gelopisan

    gelopisan Regular Member

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    Me too. I wonder why there's a Chn fan in the Anti-Chn forum. :)
     
  5. Baddyforall

    Baddyforall Regular Member

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    Actually, that portions were not written by me. I just copied from change.org and posted here. We also need to look after that he bingjiao incident. That was totally a different case ( This is just my opinion). The umpire had that only one incident where we need to look into, whereas in WD case, there are so many. It was a clear cut evidence to whole world that he was very partial and really hated Japanese team. For the God sake, they are Olympic Champions. Such an umpire is disgrace to sport. Better we eliminate him from the bunch of good ones, sport will be spared.
    But for He bingjiao's case, the umpire could be warned for that one incident. Whichever country he may be from, he need to learn the lesson. But he is not that bad though.
     
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  6. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    The second umpire in He Bingjiao's case already knew what the first umpire did in the JPN WD case was downright wrong, yet he knowingly and brazenly repeated it on a Chinese player. Two wrongs do not make a right, he is just as bad though he did it once intentionally.
     
    #366 Justin L, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  7. Baddyforall

    Baddyforall Regular Member

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    Both are wrong. But the first one not only prevented the pair to challenge , he himself helped Chinese pair to delay the game by allowing linesman to wipe the court of Chinese pair on every other rally and warning the Japanese pair for serve delay. He was clear cut example of ' Not to do' list of umpires.
     
  8. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    You don't understand. The second umpire knowing it's wrong having witnessed the incident may, for all you know, be giving tit for tat and victimize HBJ who has nothing to do with it. Therefore, he is no less guilty or bad than the first umpire.

    What he should do is to protest the first case and not have it out on someone else in retaliation, that's my meaning.
     
  9. Desireless

    Desireless Regular Member

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    Maybe yes, maybe no. When BWF needs an umpire for a tournament being held on Chinese soil, do they start looking for people off the street, or would they ask CBA for a list of recommended umpires in the local area?

    But regardless of that, the optics to the players and the international audience are not good. Most will simply see a Chinese judge presiding over Chinese players at a Chinese SSP tournament in a Chinese city in China. Hence the damage to the nation's international image and reputation, which will take a very long time to repair in the minds of players and fans from around the world, as indicated in the thousands of respondents to that informal petition. Can you imagine what's going on in the Japanese language news cycle?
     
  10. gelopisan

    gelopisan Regular Member

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    The BWF appoints BWF Certificated Umpires for the Olympic Games, Thomas and Uber Cup Finals, Sudirman Cup and Super Series Finals.
    For other events, the BWF may appoint Accredited Umpires and Continentally Certificated Umpires or Nationally Certificated Umpires normally from the Continent or Member Association where the BWF event is held.

    The HOST country appoints umpires for Grand Prix Gold and Grand Prix tournaments and tournaments at International Challenge, International Series and Future Series.

    This might help. ..

    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/page.aspx?id=14927
     
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  11. Desireless

    Desireless Regular Member

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    So again, since this was not one of the four special cases, the umpire could have been selected based on a referral by "Continent or Member Association".
     
  12. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    You pick only on the Chinese umpire,what about the other umpire in He Bingjiao's case ?

    Furthermore, I trust fair-minded, discerning people and those outside not biased against China may not feel and view matters the way you do unless some people intentionally play up the issue emotionally. You don't supposed, China and the Chinese people in general, CBA, the tournament organizer, and the big sponsors, are fools as not to realize the harm it will do to them and the price they will have to pay for it by letting or condoning such misbehaviour ?

    I say, condemn the two umpires involved for their errant or rogue behaviour, let the proper authority. BWF, take the most appropriate actions against them, and not blow the matter up by bringing other unrelated matters as that will play into the hands of those with ill-intent , not so much to uphold the integrity of the sport but to fish in troubled waters for their ulterior motives or private agenda.

    The herd instinct when roused by the demagogue can spiral out of control bringing untold needless suffering and cruelty. That's how nationalist fervour is stirred by irresponsible leaders on the unsuspecting populace for their self-serving goals. I digress, but I believe you get my point.
     
  13. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Can you imagine countries going to war over a soccer match ? Between El Salvador and Honduras in 1969.

    "Tensions from a soccer match between the national teams of El Salvador and Honduras, aggravated by the economic inequality between the two countries, escalated into fighting. Salvadoran immigrants were then expelled from Hondurasand the countries went to war. Some 2,000 people were killed in 16 days." http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0770050.html , including other wacky wars
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    if you really want to complain about it, a petition is an ineffective way to do it. People should be taking the video evidence, telling BWF it is bringing the game into disrepute. It is the responsibility of BWF to maintain the standard of umpiring. A BWF register of umpiring incidents/reports in international matches might be a good idea if not already implemented.

    All umpires are voluntary. Perhaps it is time to consider professional umpires.

    Those who denigrate this topic by calling posters China supporters and anti China, please grow up and stop acting like children.
     
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  15. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Fellas, the optics for the HBJ vs PVS incident is drastically different because the umpire is Mohammed Hassan Hossein Zadeh from Iran.

    Because he's not from either players' countries, there is no perception of siding with one player or the other. If he was from India, now then we can suggest conspiracy, but as it is he's not, so ineptitude is the only conclusion.

    This incident is very different from the Japanese pair who suffered at the hands of the Chinese umpire (and referee) against the Chinese pair being played in China with the Chinese linesmen. That is probably ineptitude also, but the optics are very different because there's no impartiality at all. See the difference?
     
    #375 visor, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
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  16. Nine Tailed Fox

    Nine Tailed Fox Regular Member

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    It's the only conclusion in all the cases, then ?

    Why so much China bashing ?
     
  17. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    See my updated last paragraph re impartiality.
     
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  18. Nine Tailed Fox

    Nine Tailed Fox Regular Member

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    Ok, thanks.
     
  19. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I 'm all for professional umpires, let BWF certify and accredit them, with their career and reputation at stake, the problem will go away and a high standard maintained.

    Include service judges, a bit problematic because subjective. What about linejudges ?But we've Hawk-Eye and the professional umpires to ensure impartiality; in that case have a credit system where the good ones are praised and rewarded in cash and/or kind.
     
  20. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Sure there are differences but the commonality ,the main issue, is that both the umpires are inept,incompetent and willful. It's the not allowing the player to challenge that is outright wrong, the real offense,an infraction, the rest like not allowing some players to change shuttles or to have the floor mopped or towel down are irritations and bias or unfair treatment that don't carry the same weight.

    Don't fall for the same mistake as Baddyforall's argument (I apologise in advance if I get you wrong) which is flawed and unethical in that only the one who has committed an offence and is more loathsome for having done some other minor indiscretions should be punished while the other who is merely an offender of the same violation be let off. Like I said, the second umpire knowing what the first did was wrong and still go ahead to do the same is therefore just as odious and guilty despite the fact that he is not of the same nationality as either players (who knows which side he is on or against, privately).

    I don't deny the Chinese umpire may have acted out of misplaced patriotism but his motivation is something outside the purview of BWF to deal with except when an offence is committed going by the rule book. Remember, some time ago, Lin Dan was complaining of some foreign tournament officials whom he claimed are unduly strict with Chinese players, particularly obvious where no IRS is in place on the non-TV courts. Understandably, BWF couldn't do much about it other than to urge impartiality by appealing to the ethical and professional standards of all the tournament officials.

    Like you argued, ineptitude is what defined both cases but the optics in the first case is most unfortunate due to the historical baggage still persisting between the two nations. Let's earnestly hope the sincere efforts and goodwill of both peoples and the passage of time can heal the divide.
     
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