Thanks for visiting us!

Badminton Central is a free community for fans of badminton! If you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community users, it takes less than 15 seconds! Everybody is welcome here.

Click here for a FREE account!

The history of Zhao Jian Hua

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by Pakito, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    16,230
    Likes Received:
    30
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Are you sure it was Scottish Open? I thought it was the Swedish Open.
     
  2. Pakito

    Pakito Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    service consultant
    Location:
    Ipoh
  3. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    28,584
    Likes Received:
    561
    Occupation:
    Self-employed
    Location:
    Citizen of The World
    Done. Can't thank you enough,Pakito. I chose the MP4-360p version, a bit grainy but good enough;if only they filmed it in different angles,sorry, expecting too much.

    Let us clamour for a Lin Dan - Zhao Jianhua Exhibition Match!
     
  4. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    28,584
    Likes Received:
    561
    Occupation:
    Self-employed
    Location:
    Citizen of The World
    OK,I watched the video again to double-check, the presenter said '苏格兰' i.e. Scotland/Scottish. If you're right,that means the presenter made a mistake.
     
  5. sonnymak

    sonnymak Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    kl,malaysia
    The dive retrieval was used in top flight badminton in late 80s by that tormentor named Foo Kok Keong who actually incorporated diving into his training.

    Zhao, never was he able to beat FOO.
     
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    16,230
    Likes Received:
    30
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    I am wrong, just looked put the info in wikipedia - wonder why I always thought it was swedish, my bad
     
  7. sonnymak

    sonnymak Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    kl,malaysia
    On the technical point of view let me put some context to the badminton world of pre Zhao and Post Zhao scenario. Older Baddies hereplease give input.

    I have watched countless of videos on youtube of top men singles in the 70s.I've watch Rudy vs Punch, Rudy vs Liem. Liem vs Prakash. Liem vs Morten. Liemvs Misbun. Liem vs Han Jian.

    I've made one observation. It is the way pre Zhao singles players hold the racket before they hit the shuttle.

    All the above players at the back of the Court when hitting a high lob theracket head always at the back of their head and the elbow placed in a V shape.The hit is done in full force of the rotating shoulder ,back swing and movementof the wrist forward and full follow up.

    The trajectory of the shuttle resembles a parabolic curve. All guidebooksillustrate such technique.

    Deception:

    Rudy often used the half forward slice to bring the shuttle down faster (knownas the half smash). Prakash imitated that style and used it very often in his rally style play to add some deception.

    Punch gunalan often uses the wrist to turn the shuttle from left to right or from right to left after executing a smash .

    Misbun would use a shooting lob technique where trajectory of the shuttle isflat going to the back line (what is term punch clear now ) and also the chopfrom right to left.

    Smash

    Liem with strong leg muscles jumps high to smash in very steep manner. however he only did so after a few rallies when the opponent was out of position .


    Zhao's technique:

    Observe Zhao's holding of the racket before hitting. He always made sure theface of the racket faces the shuttle and he hold the head of the racket highwith his elbow in line with his fore head before he hit the shuttle.

    His lobs are 80 % shooting lobs instead of parabolic lobs.

    He does not hit with full swing. The technique allowedhim to slice, cut, lob, smash or soft block without changing the angle of theracket face until upon the touch of the shuttle. He can change the direction ofthe shuttle without letting his opponent know.

    The other thing is the speed of the shuttle. The way hehit the shuttle the velocity of the shuttle is higher even when he was playingthe lob.

    It is not that Zhao’ game has not been seen before inother top players but not all the tricks seen in one player.

    Zhao also have very good speed and foot work to reach theshuttle to play this type of game . This added with the lethal smashing.

    I watch the semifinal between Liem and Zhao AE 85. Liem even though past his prime was stillformidable so formidable in fact that he beat Yang Yang in the quarter finals.

    Liem was made to run all over the Court. I believe Liemwas just not used to this type of game where the shuttle was moving so fast in all directions and in such time that he could not guess before hand where the shuttle was going.

    Morten was able to do better in the finals because Mortenhad played Zhao before and lost.

    Zhao’s influence and legacy.

    The racket holding technique was seen in one other mensingle player, Dong Jiong which is another deceptive player.

    Susi Susanti can be seen using the same racket holdingstyle as Zhao but i do not know whether that was imitating Zhao or inout from the THING coaching inIndonesia.

    Today,Zhao racket holding technique can only be seen in Women singles and doubles and mostof the time by non Chinese players.

    I do not know why top men singles do not use his technique.

    Lee ChongWei is the only top player who has an image of Zhao’s strategy but not his racket holding technique.
    None of the current top Chinese singles players resemble Zhao in technique nor strategy which is surprising.

    After Zhao came into the scene . The speed of the gamewent several notches higher. Morten Frost was able to adjust his game to thespeed .
    Other s like Ardy and Foo Kok keong relied on retrievalof every shuttle thrown at them.
    As for me, after playing amateur badminton for so long , I now use Zhao racket technique. Maybethe technique works well with slender person body type like I am and I find Icould hit the shuttle faster execute a drop better then the other techniques seen in guidebooks. Other body types may not find his technique useful.
     
    #47 sonnymak, Nov 21, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  8. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    15
    Occupation:
    Chartered Civil Engineer
    Location:
    London, UK
    I mentioned earlier that when I was a kid I looked at ZJH for inspiration and often copied his style. One of the things I noticed at a young age and tried to mimic was the way he prepared his upper body for a shot. I noted the racquet face was always facing the shuttle and that he didn’t pronate in the way that modern players do but still managed to achieve decent power and accuracy. Having studied and tried to copy his style, I also do not pronate much and play a flatter stroke instead.

    One shot that ZJH had that I have yet to see in another player is the disguised rear court drop shot. A very smooth and delicate stroke with a bit of slice that produced an incredibly steep drop, tight to the net with disguise. It was a shot that caught out a lot of the taller western players of his time.

    I’m not surprised that Zhao’s technique and strategy has not been adopted in modern top class badminton, the game has evolved and is probably no longer seen as effective playing against fast and aggressive players these days. However having said that, I have noticed in recent years that the likes of LD have adopted a more mellow style of play, often choosing to drop and clear over an outright winning smash which was once the choice when given the opportunity.

    So who knows, there may be a return to the old school badminton strategies.
     
  9. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    16,230
    Likes Received:
    30
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    You can see Peter Gade's overhead stroke modelled on Zhao's stroke.
     
  10. pBmMalaysia

    pBmMalaysia Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,748
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    badminton coach
    Location:
    Kuching, Malaysia, Malaysia
    ZJH is one of a kind you will never find player, full of surprises stroke and none of the current players can come close to that, even LD or LCW :D
     
  11. maxout

    maxout Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Hear, hear ....

    I stopped watching and playing tennis when SHEER BRUTE FORCE took over the game from the days of McEnroe, Borg, Natasae and Connors ... they were the last before the GRUNTERS ...

    Thankfully badminton can still hold out against the BRUTES ... for how long ... ? I curse the day when IBF (BWF) changed the scoring system which affected the nature and style of play by promoting sheer speed and aggression over stroke play.
     
  12. sonnymak

    sonnymak Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    kl,malaysia
    You can see what i mean by observing the reverse angle slow motion of Zhao's movement and racket technique. the Racket seem to move fast even in slow motion. And very little pronation by Zhao.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om5nXnjvqxg
     
  13. Pakito

    Pakito Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    service consultant
    Location:
    Ipoh
    The skills and speed marriage into the game of badminton necessitate the evolution of cutting down unnecessary strokes which in turn cuts down on the time needed to execute a stroke, bringing more time for the player. More time equals more option.
    Even though Master Tang was in Indonesia's battleship at the time of Zhao, the latter is one of the master who revolutionize this type of strokes with deceptive quality. If you notice Tang's manual of minimum step jump smash, Zhao and Yang Yang were already using it with full force, probably tutored by Hou Chia Chiang.
     
  14. pBmMalaysia

    pBmMalaysia Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,748
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    badminton coach
    Location:
    Kuching, Malaysia, Malaysia
    Even though we dont have much video of the thing and hao some said zjh resembles their style, stroke wise and the pace of the game. My late father had the chance to see some movie clips of both of these two legend in the seventies and when he saw zjh played in the eighties he said he was close but more refined!
     
  15. sonnymak

    sonnymak Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    kl,malaysia
    Ahh Master Thing hien Hiow. Didnt see him play too young or wasnt not even born at that time. But at 16 years old he was known to have used that rear court net drop that caught Malaysian Juniors and back up Seniors of guard. You may read this at the national library of Singapore website and read the articles of the Straight times of the 50s, just type Sieble , Thing and badminton.

    So Zhao's technique has its roots in Thing and How who in turn has its roots in the Islands of the East Indies?
     
  16. pBmMalaysia

    pBmMalaysia Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,748
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    badminton coach
    Location:
    Kuching, Malaysia, Malaysia
    I know a legend by name Tang Xianfu, Tang Sinfu or Tang Xianhu. But who's Thing hien hiow? :D
     
  17. Gladius

    Gladius Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Singapore
    They are one and the same. It should be Tang SianHu.

    'Theng' or 'Ting' is the localised translation of his surname when he was born Indonesian.

    'Tang' pronounced 'T-Ang' (somewhat similar to "tongue" in English) is the correct chinese surname.
     
  18. Pakito

    Pakito Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    service consultant
    Location:
    Ipoh
    At the moment, I am experimenting on Zhao's way of executing overhead strokes, netting and services. The video I have uploaded has a mimicry of strokes that use less of forearm pronation, racket head flat 'just before' contact with shuttle (I'm in white shirt with blue stripe).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP7mpTQE7Ms&feature=youtu.be

    The racket I'm using is a much heavier racket head, Yonex Carbonex 15 which is no longer in production. The reason I'm using such a heavy racket is no other than to strengthen my wrist for producing 'whiplash power' rather than 'brute force power'. You can also see that I try to have same movements for all strokes (as much I possibly can) so that deception is greater. The flat racket head just before contact also cancels out all presumptions of your opponents to which way your shuttle direction is going to. Of course 'double motion' can fool your opponents also, but the down side of 'double motion' is that is takes more time to perform 2 strokes instead of 1. So the flat racket head takes care of that. Also inculcated is Zhao's recommendation that middle, ring and and pinky finger is held loosely (relaxed) on the racket grip to allow maximization of wrist stroke to lessen dependency on arm stroke.

    To begin familiarizing with wrist power, shoulder rotational power and body weight is not used (or hugely lessen) as can be seen from the video. When the wrist power is mastered then you can supplement with those powers. The grip I used is a towel grip as I sweat plenty. I also use grip powder a lot. Sometimes I wish I don't have so much sweat pores.:D

    Results: My initial foray into Zhao's recommendations (both from his coaching videos and my own study of his stroke execution) yields a better control of the racket head, lessen time for execution of each stroke (due to less forearm pronation and 'double motion' strokes) thereby yielding more option for choice of angles, more relax grip, hence a less fatigued playing-hand. However, I can't jump as high as Zhao. :eek:

    I'm also surprise to find that my backhand is more smooth sailing as compared to being tense, when following Zhao's instruction of 'not' using the traditional backhand grip of using the thumb power. The thumb position is placed somewhat in between the forehand thumb and backhand position. Additional efficiency realized includes more control of netting with 'crisp power' where a calculation of 'just enough' force is used so that the shuttle flies as close to the net tape as possible, even for defensive netting, as you will witness from some of the shots I made.

    However, as always practice makes perfect and patience is of utmost importance. It can be frustrating at times especially when you are playing tired and your energy tank almost depleted. :D

    Another thing is, the efficiency of the 'shooting lob'/ punch clear is more effective in the sense that the speed of the shuttle is faster with less dependency of forearm power, shoulder rotational power and body weight supplemental power. Overhead strokes that is coupled with a high jump like Zhao really utilizes a lot of your oxygen tank :D. I have yet to experiment training with weights on both my legs which is both dangerous and injurious.

    For those who are inquisitive and a 'curious cat' of Zhao's flair and technique, I hope this helps. :D
     
  19. pBmMalaysia

    pBmMalaysia Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,748
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    badminton coach
    Location:
    Kuching, Malaysia, Malaysia
    Thats great sharing :).

    However, for better deception or smoother return or faster return,

    you have to combine those explosive footwork into it then its ngam ngam :D.

    The theory is 1..2.. and hit the birdie.

    Putting together your footwork and your fast wrist work,

    would get your opponent guessing or in defensive mode most of the time :D

    in order to do that a player must have his racket/arm/elbow slightly higher than normal

    to shorten all hitting strokes

    and most important is the racket should not be too near your face or body :)

    And yes, practice makes perfect :) :D.
     
    #59 pBmMalaysia, Nov 24, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  20. Pakito

    Pakito Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,229
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    service consultant
    Location:
    Ipoh
    Yes, thanks for the advice. I reckon swift footwork is a feat for everyone in late 30s
     

Share This Page