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The Walkover & Withdrawal issue - rights and wrongs

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by cobalt, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. eaglehelang

    eaglehelang Regular Member

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    That's one of the points I mentioned earlier, BWF are wimps compared to certain other sports associations, examples which have been given. Other sports association hold an inquiry, then concluded there's match fixing although no $$$$ were passed,although the match was played, although the players & coaches denied it strongly.Then deliver the punishment. THey played by the rules yes, but the association decided they didnt play best effort to win but to purposely lose. The association has the power.

    That was why I said 'laughing stock of other sports association',Lawn Bowling is one. I also mentioned 'for years on', lol, no way other countries can pull it off for say 10 to 20 years, continously. Some one complaining, oh yes, very fast will happen & has happened. Democracy, individualistic, if the player gets questioned, the higher powers that instructed him/her to do it will surely wash their hands, the player bears the brunt of the guilty, with reputation totally ruined.
    Once again, read though the other pages & the other match fixing thread
     
    #201 eaglehelang, Oct 7, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  2. viver

    viver Regular Member

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    Very good, the agendas related to the countries' policies had been deep rooted for a long time. Tang Xianfu's story may be one among many. Is BWF in a position to do anything to change the behavior?

    Many national associations take care of their players, from development to maturity as players and support their transition into post competition life. What is the incentive to leave the respective national associations to become an independent player if there are no viable alternatives? :(


     
  3. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    Well said. That's what went through my mind also.
     
  4. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Is BWF in a position to do anything to change the behavior?

    .
    About one month before this thread was created, BWF released this Announcement;

    ====== * ====== start of announcement ====== * ======

    BWF to protect interests of players and spectators with new measures
    Monday, August 15, 2011

    As concerns have been raised about the legitimacy of certain withdrawals in recent tournaments, it warrants the Badminton World Federation (BWF) as the governing body of the sport to put in place firm measures that will serve to protect both our players and Member Associations from speculation in relation to withdrawals and matches between players from the same country.

    To achieve this position, the following measures have been decided upon the meeting of a three-man panel, Paisan Rangsikitpho, Gregory Verpoorten, and Kaveh Mehrabi, who reported to the Executive Board at the on-going World Championships in London, and will therefore be implemented with immediate effect in all level 2 and above tournaments:

    (i) A special assessment will be conducted for any main draw matches between players from the same country. This will include special focused monitoring by the tournament referee or other BWF officials, whereby all of these matches from the quarterfinals onwards (and possibility of earlier stages) will be taped to ensure necessary documentation is on hand if irregularities are suspected and flagged for a review by the BWF disciplinary committee.

    (ii) In the event of a request for withdrawal against a player(s) from the same country, a local tournament doctor will be appointed to diagnose and certify the player(s) unfit to compete.

    (iii) Similar measures can be applied for any other tournament deemed necessary. But BWF will, for all international tournament levels, ensure a focused monitoring process on all matches between players from the same country to eliminate potential speculation.

    (iv) If compelling evidence is found of any irregularities, the matter will be treated with the utmost gravity by the BWF and severe penalties will be imposed.

    The BWF is also constantly reviewing possible changes to the rules to increase awareness of the importance for our players who are facing recurring health or injuries issues to exercise utmost excellence in undergoing complete rest and recovery before participating in any tournaments.

    While it is regrettable and understandable that players have to withdraw from tournaments from time to time due to health conditions or injuries, but the BWF equally believe that players must exercise the highest level of professionalism to protect the interests of the viewing public.

    In closing, these measures are duly acknowledged by the Athletes Commission chairman Kaveh Mehrabi to be protective of the interests of our players, and should any irregularities, appeals and contentions surface, these cases will be referred to the BWF Disciplinary Committee for review.

    Any new regulations will have to be discussed and passed through BWF Council before effected.

    ====== * ====== end of announcement ====== * ======

    Source: http://bwfbadminton.org/news_item.aspx?id=52091

    So far it's NATO (No Action Talk Only).

    Also, some players are still not exercising the highest level of professionalism to protect the interests of the viewing public, like us at BadmintonCentral. :eek::eek::eek:
    .
     
  5. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    keep on shaming them. shame shame... ;)
     
  6. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Frankly, I don't know. My gut feeling? I don't think so, and in any case, it would be out of the purview of the BWF at this stage, unless they make a huge transition or overhaul of their entire policies, including mission statement. I'm not holding my breath on that one, though.

    The stats and feedback on this forum, as well as from sources like the press etc, suggests the case is otherwise, in many countries. The ground reality is that many players in many countries come from less privileged backgrounds and as such, their only perceived chance at economic stability comes from badminton. It does not always translate into a successful transition because they know nothing else once they have devoted some of their best formative and developmental years to the game. And once out of the national spotlight, the real opportunities cold be few and far between. Our awareness is mostly (and sadly) on the names that have more reall in our memory. For every one such, there are many more that fall by the wayside.
     
  7. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Let's post some suspicious match-fixing in other sports

    .
    Let's post some suspicious match-fixing in other sports (as compared to our suspicious match-fixing in Badminton).

    In yesterday's BBC news on Football;

    Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15196761

    Wayne Rooney's father arrested in police betting probe

    6 October 2011

    Nine men, including Wayne Rooney's father, who were arrested in a probe into betting irregularities have been released on bail.

    Wayne Rooney Sr and seven other men had been held at addresses in Merseyside. Motherwell FC player Steve Jennings had been arrested at his home in Glasgow.

    Police said the men had been arrested for conspiracy to defraud.

    The probe relates to alleged betting irregularities surrounding a game between Motherwell and Hearts.

    Concerns about the game, on 14 December 2010, were raised by the Association of British Bookmakers after a number of bets from the Liverpool area were placed on there being a sending off.

    During the match Jennings, who had already been booked, was shown a straight red card for foul and abusive language aimed at referee Stevie O'Reilly late in the 2-1 home defeat.

    'Suspicious betting'

    The 26-year-old, who is from Liverpool and joined Motherwell from Tranmere two years ago, has denied any wrongdoing.

    It is believed that Manchester United and England striker Rooney's uncle Richie, 54, was also among those detained.

    Stewart Regan, SFA chief executive, said: "While the investigation involves several other individuals outwith Scotland, it is important to stress that the evidence gathered throughout this thorough period of investigation has involved only one Scottish match.

    "Motherwell FC are aware of the situation and will issue a response in due course."

    In a statement, Merseyside Police said: "Detectives have today executed warrants at 10 addresses across Merseyside and Glasgow and arrested nine men as part of an investigation into suspicious betting activity.

    "The arrests are the culmination of a joint operation with the Gambling Commission and the nine who have been arrested for conspiracy to defraud are being interviewed by detectives.

    "Those arrested are a 29-year-old from Bootle, a 48-year-old from West Derby, a 54-year-old from Norris Green, a 26-year-old from Croxteth, a 22-year-old from Kirkdale, a 31-year-old from Litherland, a 68-year-old from Fazakerley, a 36-year-old from Kirkby and a 26-year-old from Glasgow.

    "The investigation relates to a match between Motherwell and Hearts on December 14 2010."
    .
     
  8. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    Speaking of team orders, today's F1 in Japan with Vettel on pole and needing just one point to secure the title while Button from McLaren the only driver still in contention, can Hamilton be asked to prevent Vettel from scoring any points to help McLaren? Something similar happened with Nelson Piquet Jr in Singapore in 2008. See : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6834552.ece
     
  9. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    How many times I have to say that "given a chance, but choose not to do it" vs. "never even get a chance to begin with, and never can do it" are NOT THE SAME???

    I can say that myself, my lil sister who's 3 years old, my grand parents who are 80+. etc are all way more "honest" than any players, because we never throw any SS, AE, OG, WC matches away... Oh, btw, we never qualified, and probally will never ever qualified to begin with... Get the point? check your tournamentsoftware or whatever, my family has the 0000000 record for WO. Does that mean we are perfect???:cool:
     
  10. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Exactly!! :D:D:D You should read some more posts on this thread. One of the constant points I (and others as well) have been making right from the beginning has been that humans are not perfect; therefore they are susceptible to all kinds of pressures, different priorities, agendas etc etc. And therefore it is up to the "competent authority" to set up a system of checks/balances and enforce that system, in an attempt to close up all the loopholes. If it is possible. If one wants to even try. If you think it's worth fighting for. :D
     
  11. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Error in the link given

    .
    Hi nokh88,

    Please check your link again. It is found "404 Error: The page could not be loaded."
    .
     
  12. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Why do you have to bring up an inane example of your family to illustrate your second point when we are talking about professionals? That s in a way, insulting the intelligence of BCFers, are you not aware? Or maybe that s your objective? Non CHN players have opportunities to fake or fix matches or give walkovers. Some cannot be done because the BA has no power to decide over them. But certainly for BAM and PBSI, they have enough players to order 'patriotic' behaviour. Take MAS MDs QF in JO11 recently. The junior MAS MD should just have done a CHN by giving a walkover to KooTan. Why not? Because of respect for the fans and sponsors and organizers (or BAM is too stupid to understand that stamina and energy level Gilles Berthouddetermining outcome factors, especially from QF onwards?) I have a suggestion. In the coming PSS China Open, BAM and PBSI should order walkovers when their players meet so they can prove their patriotism in front of a largely CHN crowd that would appreciate patriotic behaviour and would not feel insulted. Like they say, if you can t beat them, then join them. Except be selective about where to join them. In this case , only in CHN tournaments. Because the fans would approve of it. Can you imagine 5 , or even just 3 non-CHN walkovers. LYB would be pleased with his infection effectiveness. BWF would be proud of BAM and PBSI s intelligence on doing a CHN in CHN. Let us encourage BAM and PBSI to do it. Only during OG qualification period and only in CHN ( and HKG? And MAC?)
     
  13. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    To force BWF to urgently tackle this problem

    .
    In a way, I like your post mentioning "If you can't beat them, then join them". :):):)

    It is not because it is to retaliate against China's way of often giving walkovers to teammates, but to force BWF to urgently tackle this problem.

    If World Ferderations like Lawn Bowling, Cricket, Football, etc, ...... can do it, I am sure BWF can do it if they really wanted to. ;););)
    .
     
    #213 chris-ccc, Oct 9, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2011
  14. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Badminton could be in all sorts of trouble if BWF couldn't tackle the "match-fixing"

    .
    In the other way, Badminton could be in all sorts of trouble if BWF couldn't tackle the "match-fixing" problem. Why? Because there will be too many "walkovers" and/or "match-fixing" happening in tournaments.

    We, Badminton followers, will get fewer good matches to watch. And also, we will have more "pretending/acting" staged for us. :(:(:(
    .
     
    #214 chris-ccc, Oct 9, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2011
  15. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

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    I dont question the reputation of Jakarta Post. Thats why its a good media for Liem Swie King to promote his book. But dont quote me on that I merely stating that no where in that article Rudy Hartono or Liem Swie King admit that there was a match fixing. On the contrary they have both denied it. The journalist can write whatever he wants but one thing he did not proof is that there was a match fixing.

    NO. On the other hand LYB statement is as clear as you can get, here's again what LYB said, and I quote:

    "After the first game, Zhang looked in better all round shape,"
    "So we told Zhou Mi not to work too hard and let Zhang into the final."
    "It shows our patriotism and in fact I am proud of it."

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=416666

    I really dont understand, what more do you ask for??


    Then I think you should. Otherwise why wasting your time hangin in this thread where you dont care about.

    Thats what a forum is for, a sharing of opinion and information. It is also not my concern if you found my article not reliable, with that clear cut statement of LYB in the content, Im not worry at all about its popularity.

    Yes Yes yes......no one said other sports are clean. We are not talking about that, are we? Are you saying that because it exists, so its OK? Sorry as far as I know a wrong is a wrong whichever way you want to look at it.
     
  16. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

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    Please stop this "Im just the victim" cry.......the arguably the greatest player of all time LD is just a victim of team order......oooh what a shame!! Or should we start a thread call "What should LD do?". As far as I see on the TV, LD is a strong grown man, I thought no one can tell him what to do beside his wife. What a shame!!!

    Proof please......!!!! Tang Xian Fu and those Chinese/Foreign ministers are now also a match fixer. In where I live you are innocent until proven guilty.
     
  17. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    It's there, Chris.
    Anyway, Vettel has retained his title, the youngest at 24 after finishing 3rd even though Button won the race with Alonso coming second and Hamilton finishing fourth. No team orders. To heavy a penalty to pay.
     
  18. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    TSB should really look at 2011DOSS draw and whatever SSs coming up leading to qualification for OLY12 if TSB/LCW are really seriously aiming for OLY gold and not these SS thingies. LCW could meet CJ at QF. LCW should give his all to KO CJ or play all out to wear CJ down even if LCW lose. If LCW wins, he should do a WO if he meets PG, so PG can be fresh into the final. That would increase the point gap between PG and CJ, and if PG wins DO11, what friends are for? I really meant what I say, I know I am bad, unsportsmanlike, whatever but so what, nice guy finish last, might as well play the game.
     
  19. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    BWF knows this problem but it becomes a million dollar question how to fix it. Proof faking injury and WO, proof a player throwing game to compatriots, and even after LYB was quoted by CHN newspaper to openly admitting match fixing, BWF cannot or will not do anything, that is the writing on the wall. There is nothing to gain to retaliate against LYB, but it is to play along if the opportunity presents itself, starting with DO11. The only obstacle is 'would TSB/LCW do it?'. I hope they do, screw sportsmanship for the next few months then resume sportsmanship after that:D:p
     
  20. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    The biggest problem to BWF is badminton will remain a backyard, Asian sport and would not break through to Europe and North America as no TV stations will touch this thingie.
     

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