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The Walkover & Withdrawal issue - rights and wrongs

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by cobalt, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. Chayady

    Chayady Regular Member

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    To add a reason why the wo and the withdrawal (over countryman) is very disgraceful to the sport, i think you guys should see this video to understand what is the true value of the sport.

    [video=youtube;Hq3rOMnLGBk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq3rOMnLGBk[/video]
    [video=youtube;kZlXWp6vFdE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZlXWp6vFdE[/video]

    I hope it will open your eyes (not those in your head, but deep inside your heart) that sport (any sports) should be played with courage, honor and dignity.
     
  2. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Fixing to be illegal in Australia in 2012

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/current/story/539193.html

    Excerpts:

    Fixing matches or elements within them will be illegal in Australia in 2012, perhaps as soon as March, as the federal and state governments push ahead with specialised legislation.

    The legislation, which is set to include penalties of up to 10 years' jail for those found to be involved in match-fixing, was encouraged and informed by cricket administrators, via the Coalition of Major Participation and Professional Sports (COMPPS), following the game's long and pained history of shady dealings between players and illegal bookmakers.

    State attorneys-general are scheduled to meet in Hobart later this month to discuss the legislation, which was agreed to by the federal and state sports ministers at a Council of Australian Governments meeting in Brisbane June. Support for the legislation on both sides of politics should hasten its speedy progress into law.
     
  3. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    Some of us hold the opinion that if CHN team fix matches, it is because they have opportunities, having so many top players, and that other countries would do the same if they had the occasion (that match fixing was not related to how different countries see the game).
    Well at the recent Danish open, we have seen a very good quarter final between Axelsen and Gade, a fierce struggle that went for three games, though a semi-final was very valuable for Gade (a step closer to avoid CJ in his OLY path next year, and a fake semi-final LD-CJ). So there was an important stake, but there was no way one of the two player would let go.
     
  4. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    suddenly i saw my name here after 2 weeks
    hope that bc have tag function just like facebook
    so we can aware of who talking to us
    haha
     
  5. victory

    victory Regular Member

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    In most cases, law breakers around the world will always say something that carry this message-------- if you are in my shoes, you will do the same. Never mind their language. Never mind what they actually say. The message is the same. Why? Indecency loves company.

    They ratioanalize their unruly behaviours so that they feel less guilty. They think they can suck others into their hole of negativity so that others feel they are less guilty.

    But the again and again, we see many wants to stand at moral high ground.

    Thank you Axelson and Gade for standing at moral high ground to protect the dignity and professionalism of badminton. Kudos to both of you. Kudos to the dane.

    Thank you Renbo for highlighting it to all of us and especially to some of us that think what CBA and Lin dan does is okay.

    What the dane did was right and it reflect how wrong and how shameful it was for LD and CBA to manipulate the matches.
     
  6. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    Your name is everywhere. :D
     
  7. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    LCW gave a walkover to his Thai opponent in round 1 of the Macau Open. Here is the reason according to the BAM bigwig NCC:

    NCC's statement meant that LCW was not actually injured, but wanted avoid risking injury. Hey NCC, guess what? Every time a player walks out to play in a professional sport, he risks injury! Sheeeesh!!! Such mind-numbing statements from a person who is "chairman of the coaching and training conmittee...."

    So, I went over to the BWF website, but all they have mentioned is that this is a great chance for Taufik to win the title! No mention about what explanations were accepted by the BWF, or whether LCW submitted to a medical examination or why such a wishy-washy reason as above was acceptable. Or is LCW/BAM going to be fined?

    LD withdrew prior to commencement of the tournament, thereby allowing at least, someone else a chance to play in that spot. LCW's (and his, errr, "advisors") actions didn't even leave that chance for another deserving young player. What a shame.
     
  8. madbad

    madbad Regular Member

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    coming to a court near you...
    No surprise, that dude is also a lawyer
     
  9. huangkwokhau

    huangkwokhau Regular Member

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    LCW was in Macau but decided not to play..I don't think it is good way to withdraw...at least he could leave that spot for someone else....there is no guarantee that Taufik could win this tournament...
     
  10. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Meanwhile, there is no more news from BWF as to what proactive measures are being considered to doscourage the practise of walkovers and withdrawals. I find it hard to believe that they do not know the impact of these practises, and yet they sit on their collective thumb...
     
  11. soulless

    soulless Regular Member

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    Great comments from fellow BCers, I hope badminton grows in the world and WO is the antidote. Cobalt is wise to say that China is the symptom, not the cause...Yet when you are the top dog in the sport, there is a responsibility attached to the status, people look up to you and interpret your actions. When you are at the top, there is a Responsibility to Nurture the Sport, NOT to Plunder it for Personal Gain (aka the Olympics). The Olympics is there to promote the spirit of fair competition; when you have lost the spirit, the gold medal becomes meaningless.

    China, due to its unique circumstances, has always felt the "chip on the shoulder" and that it must confront all enemies that attempt to thwart its rise. That attitude is no longer tenable, in the sport of badminton, or in the world of politics. For all the criticisms China levies against the U.S. for its belligerent behaviors around the world; China needs to look at its own conducts and consider how to behave differently.
     
  12. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    The just-concluded Korea Open GPG witnessed a spate of questionable decisions and judgements by linesmen and service judges, especially from the QF stage onwards. This has upset a lot of players, coaches and obviously, BC forumers as well.

    There is this discussion going on among forumers about what is worse, or what is more clearly condemnable: walkovers or partisan judging. Protagonists on both sides agree however that both the actions are wrong and a form of cheating. Some people claim that walkovers don't really influence the course of events in a tournament, whereas partisan judging immediately pushes a possible winning player out of the tournament.

    Are these shades of grey? Is there a clear-cut definition of cheating? Or unfair play? Do two wrongs make a right? Is it OK to point fingers at one party with an attitude of "he did it first?" Even if someone takes ownership of wrong or illegal action, are there any consequences applied? And if not, then why not?

    And of course the other question, the real problem that is getting worse: What the *****$&#^**%$% is BWF doing about all this?
     
  13. V1lau

    V1lau Regular Member

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    My definition of cheating is gaining advantage through means other than hard-work and/or luck. I think it just depends on the persons/organizations who is calling for the walkovers or partisan judging.

    I think the BWF is just having a hard time pinpointing the source(player, coach, organization, third-party, one line judge, "2,3,4" line judges, coincidences) of the problem and proofing their case. It's one thing to see a problem, it's another to proof it, and it's yet another to stop it.
     
    #313 V1lau, Dec 11, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  14. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    I personally think there is a higher probability in WOs by training partners or countrymen in general, due to internal prestige, lack of confidence, friendliness etc. between people who train and play many times against oneanother and knows the other player game and strengths/weaknesses extremely well.

    look at korean GP Gold, amny kor-kor meetingas and of course some WOs:

    Jae Sung Jung/Yong Dae Lee - Yi Goo Kwon Baek Choel Shin : Walkover
    Ji Hyun Sung - Hye Youn Hwang : Walkover
    Wan Ho Shon - Ji Hoon Hong : Walkover

    /T
     
  15. david14700

    david14700 Regular Member

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    I think the LCW withdrawal from the Macau Open is totally irrelevant to the main issues being discussed here.

    LCW did not "give" a walkover to a teammate to benefit that teammate. The other player wasn't even Malaysian, as I understand it. LCW pulled out to avoid injury. And there is a world of difference between knowing that there is always a risk of injury and forcing yourself to play if you're not 100% fit or you know that you're close to an injury.

    I'm sure all of us have had situations where we don't play a meaningless match because we're still recovering from an injury and don't want to make it worse because we have a big match or tournament just around the corner. So we save ourselves and give ourselves a bit more time to heal.

    LCW isn't a robot who's either 100% fit or 100% broken. I'm sure he nearly always plays with some pain or tweak from minor strains. So if he's having a particularly hard time one week and decides he should rest, let's give him a break.
     
  16. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    What teamate COULD he give WO to??? I dont think he has been drawn against for example Hashim or uncle WCH a single time 2011 SS/GP..
     
    #316 twobeer, Dec 12, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
  17. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Badminton World Federation likely to revise Olympic qualifying format – Badminton News

    Sam Willis

    http://blogs.bettor.com/Badminton-W...mpic-qualifying-format-Badminton-News-a148264

    The Badminton World Federation (BWF) is toying with the idea to modify Olympic qualification criterion to end the manipulation of some countries.

    BWF came under fire for its inability to deal with China who always exploits its position in badminton world to maximise their chances of glory in every edition of the Olympics.

    China manipulated BWF rules in the past by forcing its prime shuttler Lin Dan to concede walk over against Chen Long in China Open Super Series to help lower ranked shuttler in climbing up in world ranking and now Chen Long sits at third position.

    Now in recently concluded Badminton Asia Championships the World Number two Lin Dan quit against Chen Jin citing back injury. It was said that this suspicious walkover was just to ensure Chen Jin’s spot in the 2012 London Olympics.

    However, deputy president of BWF Paisan Rang­sikitpho talked down the chances of match fixing but he admitted that it calls for some amendments in current Olympic qualifying format.

    He said, “There is no concrete evidence of match fixing but I can say that the current format may have to go as it is open to abuse. The one-year Olym­pic qualification period has to change.”

    China has already booked two as its players Lin Dan and Chen Long as they hold the second and third position respectively.

    Meanwhile, the World Number five Chen Jin was looking to climb up to one rung to win third spot for country and his recent title, which he easily won due to Lin Dan’s controversial walkover, has virtually fetched an Olympic ticket for him.

    BWF deputy president stated that this may harm the true spirit of the game and there should be fair play everywhere in the badminton world.

    Rang­sikitpho said, “All the speculation right now is not good for the world body or the game. There shouldn’t be any room for players to beat the system. We have to be fair to all.”

    However, he did not disclose that in what direction they are going to take steps to ensure a fair qualifying system but probably BWF is thinking to introduce a simple and straight qualification merit for future editions of the Olympics.
     
  18. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    We have debated this match-fixing saga ofr years and BWF had tried fixing it and still, like a wart it is still there. CHN holds the balance of power with the best players to manipulate and beat the system. WO due to sickness, tummyache, throwing matches, etc.how to proof that? If BWF restricts to 1 or 2 players from 1 country, that would actually do harm to the game itself, as players who shouldn't play in OLY or World tourneys are in at the expense of some of the world top players from CHN. CHN could argue this restriction limiting to 3 players ranked in top 4 is discriminating and not fair play to CHN. Until the rest of the world put up better players to rank in the top 4, business as usual for LYB who prolly laugh his butt off. I look forward to see what this Rang­sikitpho chap could do.
     
  19. george@chongwei

    george@chongwei Regular Member

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    [TABLE="class: ruler"]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: right"][TABLE]
    [TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
    [TD="align: right"]Kashyap Parupalli[/TD]
    [TD][​IMG][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
    [TD][TABLE]
    [TR="bgcolor: transparent"]
    [TD][​IMG][/TD]
    [TD]Jin Chen [3][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    [/TD]
    [TD]Walkover[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    I wonder how much bwf will fine chen jin or what reason could chen jin give to bwf to be accepted?;)
     
  20. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    When was the last time bwf issued fine for injured withdrawn, or to any withdrawn for that matter?
    Anyway should be covered by the host's bonus.
     

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