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Tony Gunawan's partners

Discussion in 'Professional Players' started by kwun, Apr 2, 2004.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    who was Tony's partners before Candra? i know he partnered Candra around Sydney time and then later on partnered Halim. but who was his partner before Candra and how successful were they?
     
  2. SmashingBird

    SmashingBird Regular Member

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    I believe Tony partnered Halim before he partnered Candra and they splitted up so Tony could partner Candra while Sigit was suspended and when Sigit came back, Tony and Halim reformed while Sigit and Candra reformed.
     
  3. |R|S

    |R|S Regular Member

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    and before that it was rexy mainaky... and before that, tony gunawan was quite an unknown player. So it can be said that it was rexy who brought tony into the limelight.
     
  4. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    ah.. i see i see.

    i am trying to figure out how the synergy between the few Indonesian players work. so for the timeline:

    Tony/Rexy - Tony still young then
    Tony/Halim (young) - Candra/Sigit (successful WC 1997)
    Sigit banned for drug - Tony/Candra (successful)) - Halim sits on the sideline
    Tony/Candra - Halim/Sigit (unsuccessful)
    Tony/Halim (sucessful) - Candra/Sigit (successful)
    Halim/Trikus (it was trikus, right? unsuccessful) - Candra/Sigit (problems)
    Halim/Candra (not successful) - Sigit/Trikus (not successful)

    so to summarize for each players:

    Candra:

    Sigit - positive
    Tony - positive
    Halim - not positive

    Tony:

    Halim - positive
    Candra - positive

    Sigit:

    Candra - positive
    Halim - not positive
    Trikus - not positive

    Halim:

    Candra - not postiive
    Tony - positive
    Sigit - not positive

    as you can see, Tony seems to be the enabler out of all of them. he has synergy with all players.

    while Halim is not. Halim needs someone to bring the best out of him. if he dosen't partner with an enabler, he fails.

    Candra is only compatible with some partners. he had synergy with Sigit but unsuccessful with Halim, so Candra isn't an enabler.

    Sigit similarly, he needs to have someone compatible with him. otherwise he does get very far..
     
  5. |R|S

    |R|S Regular Member

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    i find what happened is simply that tony is a setter. So whoever he partners, as long as that person plays predictably (eg halim who bangs everything high in a straight direction) he can do a lot of things to create opportunities.

    And the reason tony never partners sigit is because sigit is also a setter. However, sigit's setting is quite unpredictable, so sometimes he gets his own side into trouble. Which is why sigit is only successful with chandra, who is a very good and consistent player. Partnered with tony, the tony/chandra pairing is lethal!

    i think tony got his setting skills from rexy, who is also one of the most creative players ard!
     
  6. Phil

    Phil Regular Member

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    Regarding doubles partnerships, here's what I've learned from a coach.

    There are two types of players.

    i) Set-up player - shorter, and/or weaker body build; basically a player who can't produce a thundering smash
    ii) Power player - taller, and/or stockier body build

    Set-up player's role is to set up their partner for a putaway. This is done by dumping to the net, preferably to the middle. The set-up player, when in the back-court, should not try to smash too much from the back because they won't be strong enough to effectively penetrate the opponent's defense. To get themselves to the front, they can drop to the same side corner and rush the front.

    Power player's role is to smash, and set up their partner at the net for putaways.

    Whose role is it to end the rally? It is both players' role to end the rally, since they both work to set each other up. This is called playing for your partner. Example of playing for your partner: when given a kill shot near the front court, you are supposed to hit cross-court in case of a return, your partner will not be out of position to reach it.

    How do these types of players coexist?

    i) Set-up/Power - best partnership
    ii) Set-up/Set-up - not as effective as set-up/power, but it can work
    iii) Power/Power - not effective; both players are just focused on smashing

    Phil
     
  7. longtimeuser

    longtimeuser Regular Member

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    Just a question.

    Between the pairing of Kim Dong Moon and Ha Tae Kwon, which one is the set-up player and which is the power player?
     
  8. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    it is not always so clear-cut who's the power and who's the setter.

    but if you want me to pick between Kim/Ha, i think Ha is the more power player, but Kim himself is no slouch either and can make some very sharp and thundering smash himself. and perhaps that's why they are such a successful pairing.
     
  9. Phil

    Phil Regular Member

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    Of course, at world-class level badminton, successful pairings aren't going to be clear-cut set-up and power players. Anyone who reaches such a level of badminton is likely taller than average height, and can produce a good smash. At this level, I think that the concept of playing for your partner applies more so than the set-up/power partnerships which are more applicable to intermediate levels of badminton.

    Phil
     
  10. |R|S

    |R|S Regular Member

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    for kim/ha, the set up player is obviously kim. Just look at how he changes the pace of the game! it's surreal! it's part of the reason why he and ra are the best in the world! he sets up the game from behind and ra, the killer/power, who is damn fast, will kill any lose shots easily!

    correct. IMHO, in the pros circuit, it is true that it's not always clear cut who is settler/power. coz creative players like these will have a shot that can kill. eg, kim's not so hard but super steep smash or tony's precision smashing that allows him to smash from the back and gradually come forward.
     
  11. Lihyo

    Lihyo Regular Member

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    Hey Halim and Trikus didn't do too bad I think... Trikus' actually quite a powerful player.. that's why he dominated in mixed...

    Were there any matches played with Sigit and Tony paired up?
     
  12. nauknip

    nauknip Regular Member

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    True. They even beat Choong/Lee to earn a crucial point for INA in TC02 final.
     
  13. libra

    libra Regular Member

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    I'm thinking Cheah Soon Kit and Yap Kim Hock (or Soo Beng Kiang or pretty much anyone who partners Cheah SK :rolleyes: ), should be obvious who'se the setter in this pairing.

     
  14. reaper

    reaper Regular Member

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    You know what's funny, but true? I was at OCBC and I got to play a doubles game against Tony's wife and a US junior player, and Tony G was my doubles partner for that one game! LOL

    My gosh, they were driving and I just was bent down letting Tony take everything, and occassionally, I would be like, "Tony, was that mine?" and very quietly he'd say "yes".

    He's quite the joker when he's playing in practice (when it's not a drill or anything too important).

    But yeah, playing with top level players like that (even having them as partners) is quiet scary, LOL :D
     
  15. SmashingBird

    SmashingBird Regular Member

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    WOW, lucky you, lucky to all those people who get to play with pros.
    Reaper, do you find yourself to play worst than usual when you paired with Tony? Sometimes, I find myself imitimated when playing with someone way above my level and play worser than my usual level.
     
  16. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    Regarding Setup players and Power players (or Hit player):

    Jake Downey further divides them into Front and Rear.
    And a player can have more than one attribute. They can be both setup and hit players.

    Rear hit player:
    requires a powerful smash, hit with control and accuracy. He must be strong with the local muscular endurance that is required to keep smashing hard with consistency. He must be alert, agile, quick off the mark and able to jump upwards, sideways or backwards to smash the shuttle. Strength, good balance and power are needed to land lightly and to recover quickly to travel into position to cover any replies that get past the front player.

    Front hit player:
    needs quick reflexes, a high level of agility and a very fast racquet hand, able to generate force quickly with the minimum of racquet head movement. He should possess power and be able to use it to accelerate quickly from his front position to intercept and attack shuttles driven across the net at speed, or whipped upwards within his reach. Speed of recovery is most important for he must commit himself fully to the attack when the chance arises to hit a winner. He must be adventurous and be prepared to take risks. His job is to keep the pressure on the opponents and hit the winner whenever possible.

    Rear Setup player:
    must possess a range of strokes from high and low positions. He should be able to vary the speed and trajectory of the shuttle. He needs good control of the racquet face to vary the direction of the shuttle and catch the opponents wrongly balanced. He should be able to mix snashes with drop shots performed with some deception. He must be patient and prepared to work to create the opening. Imagination and deception are a feature of his play. When the shuttle is low he needs control, accuracy and deception to create a situation that forces the opponents to lift, or to prevent them attacking his reply. He must be ready at all times to cover his front player's adventurous attacks to the net for, once committed, it is unlikely that the front player will recover in time to cover the replies hit away from him at the sides or over his head.

    Fron Setup player:
    must possess good racquet control, a fine touch and a feel for the shuttle for he will need to play blocks, net replies, pushes to the forecourt and midcourt, and to slow the speed of the shuttle when necessary. He must be quick and alert, with good balance to intercept the opponents' replies. Additionally, he should be able to hit a winner off any weak replies. He should appear as a threat to the opponents, forcing them to lift rather than hit a reply to the forecourt or midcourt. In general, he will not attempt to hit a winner. He is not required to be adventurous and take chances. He requires patience, concentration and a good tactical mind to enable him to "read" the game, anticipate the opponents' replies and make sure that he misses no pportunity to create an opening for his partner, the hit-player to his rear.
     
  17. reaper

    reaper Regular Member

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    I think I played at my level most of that game. It was actually all right, but my level went from good/okay to bad bad bad when the flat and fast exchanges (the driving) started. That part of my game was not developed yet and sometimes when it was an easy shot, I wouldn't go for it, because I was so preoccupied with playing good since my partner was the Olympic Champion.

    So yeah, I am intimidated if I'm playing with someone way above my level, especially if that person is someone I have watched and admired on TV!!
     
  18. cyntha

    cyntha New Member

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    Tony/Rexy played as partners for intermezzo only, it was during Indonesia Open (...either year 2000 or 2001, I don’t quite remember),they were winners, they played remarkably well and very easily beat any other double players, but they never become partners officially. In his early years Tony played with Rudy Wijaya, they often beat players of higher ranks, but they never become winners of the championship. So, the timeline would be more or less like this :



    Tony(young)/Rudy Wijaya (best achievement: 5th rank) - Candra(young)/Ade Sutrisna (unsuccessful) – Halim(young)/David (unsuccessful) – Sigit(young)/Dicky (unsuccessful)

    Tony/Halim (successful) - Candra/Sigit (successful WC 1997)
    Sigit banned for drug - Tony/Candra (successful)) - Halim sits on the sideline
    Tony/Rexy (very successful, but played only once )


    Tony/Candra - Halim/Sigit (unsuccessful)
    Tony/Halim (sucessful) - Candra/Sigit (successful)
    Halim/Trikus (successful in ThomasCup team) - Candra/Sigit (problems)
    Halim/Candra (not successful) - Sigit/Trikus (not successful)



    You are right about Tony being the enabler. Rexy is also an enabler in a higher seniority level than Tony (Rexy is a few years older than Tony).
    So, you are quite lucky to have Tony as badminton player in USA ! :)
     
  19. wilfredlgf

    wilfredlgf Regular Member

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    Doubles Setup : Hybrid or Purebreed?

    Recently, after watching the AE2001 MD Finals, I made some kind of conclusion over pairing styles:

    Tony/Halim worked because Halim is the agressive power smasher from the back while Tony is the all round setter and net controller.
    Candra/Sigit worked because Candra is the power smasher from the back while Sigit has superhuman speed at the net and fabulous control. Again, remember Tony/Candra - it worked well.

    Same I can say about the current Candra/Halim partnership - both ended up playing with the same style of agressive power, thus they seem to have trouble working. Cai/Fu is another pair that fits the bill of purebreeds, I reckon thus are somewhat less succesful if faced with 'wiser' players who knows how to exploit the situation.

    Thus, I wonder : this hybrid combination - is it more likely to succeed than a purebreed type of both power or both control? Any comparisons from the past and present to see if it holds any water? Let's forget about age factor for a while.

    The hyperbole doesn't work sometimes - Park/Kim were both powerful smashers and superb at the net.
     
  20. Psycho V

    Psycho V Regular Member

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    I dun think any of the doubles player should only specialize in Smashing or Net play. There really isn't much of a choice in positioning during competitions.

    Besides the skills and consistency of the players which is the major factor, the next most important factor would be chemistry between the players.

    If there is no chemistry and they cant set up good shots for each other, the skills they possess can never be used to 100% potential.
     

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