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Tournament shuttle selection process

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by craigandy, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    In light of this article
    http://www.thestar.com.my/Sport/Badminton/2013/07/11/Working-on-it.aspx

    It got me wondering just exactly what is the process for selecting the shuttle speed for a big tournament. As in who is it done by who gets the final decision etc.

    I know roughly how shuttle speed is selected, someone hits shuttles under arm shots from the back line and then eliminates the wrong shuttle speeds (out of three choices) based on where they land relative to the doubles service line.

    This is not what concerns me but more who gets to make the call is it one person only is it the hosting association like implied by the article? is it the tournament referee? does the tournament referee have to come form a different country to the hosts? how many testers? etc.

    I feel this is one area in badminton that could be improved on so on the day it would be more accurate to fire the shuttles from a machine at a specific angle so there is more consistency with shuttle speed relative to conditions.

    Anyway a detailed account of how it happens for anyone in the know for a competition such as WC 13 would be nice

    Cheers
     
  2. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    it doesn't really matter. if the shuttle pace is too far out then the players will get the TYPE/SPEEd of shuttle changed anyway.
     
  3. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Within the rules the shuttle testing area spans 420mm, so almost half a metre from front acceptable line to back which is a massive difference in badminton terms but still acceptable so the players couldn't complain. So it does matter imo.
    It also obviously matters to the Malaysians according to the article. I have also heard players complaining about slow shuttle in some big events over the years and nothing was done about in nearly every case.( Schenk did manage to get shuttles changed before couple times).
     
  4. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    Pretty sure some players are asked to test the speeds at the start of the day/tournament. The problem is the playing conditions can change during the day/week as mentioned in the commentary once when Schenk called for new shuttles ...

    Thought I'd just as well read the article and strange to read they already know the shuttle will be slow? Perhaps because of the brand and type (Li-Ning A300?)?
    But in the same article: "For the record, during the world meet, the Badminton World Federation (BWF) will use shuttles with three different speeds. The players will be given all these three shuttles during their official training sessions in Guangzhou."
     
    #4 demolidor, Jul 22, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  5. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    The referee is in charge of shuttle speed. They do have a little temperature reader and humidifier to see if there's a big change in the venue that may require retesting of the shuttle. Like above readers have mentioned, the shuttle is tested beforehand by a player at the beginning of the tournament. That is when the referee will make his decision.
     
  6. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Exactly, very strange, you would imagine there must be something in it.
     
  7. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Thanks.
    So only one player tests, is this generally male or female? Do they get someone in good standing with BWF like say HKV. or does it not matter.
    Also the tournament referee does he have to be of different nationality to the host nation? And generally if a referee is presented with the test and from the different speeds 1 speed shuttle is outwith boundary, 1 speed shuttle on front test line and 1 speed on back test line. What one would he go for?
     
  8. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    Yes, the referee will always be of a different nationality with the exception of possibly a local deputy referee.

    They generally take a male I believe, and it is someone random not long before the tournament starts. Usually they will test about 6-8 shuttles from a tube and from both ends of the court.

    What's outwith boundary considered as? As in wide of the court? Then there's some error in the testing process or something is really wrong with the shuttle to be curving wide.
     
  9. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Outwith the testing marks as in long or short of the testing marks please see (bottom of page herehttp://www.bwfbadminton.org/file_download.aspx?id=422927&tid=1

    Do BWF/ referees not use these testing marks as a boundary? If not how do they go about determining acceptability for these tournaments.
     
    #9 craigandy, Jul 22, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  10. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Thanks again. Any idea why a chief national doubles coach would say this?
    Kim Her said that strong and powerful players from China relished playing with a slow shuttle and as the hosts, they may just use it during the world meet.
     
  11. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Because it's to their advantage when their opponents are only able to clear 3/4 court. ;)
     
  12. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    :D yeah I mean the bit where he states "they may just use it" when we have established from the information so far that "they"(the host nation china) do not get a say in what the shuttle speed will be.
     
  13. scorpion1

    scorpion1 Regular Member

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    Not only players were asked to test the shuttle beforehand, even some of the coaches were asked to do so.. In fact, in one of the tournaments, Gopichand was asked to test the shuttle.
     
  14. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    Sorry, I never got to read the article. Anyways from Grand Prix and higher level tournaments, the tournament is required to provide up to 3 different types of shuttle speed before hand.

    If all 3 aren't the correct speed? I don't know what the referee will do. Maybe tip the shuttle? Just a guess though.

    I have never seen them ask a coach test the shuttle before. That's the 1st I've heard of that.
     
  15. scorpion1

    scorpion1 Regular Member

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    Yep. Gopichand was asked to test the shuttle before Saina's match against Li xuerui in World superseries finals 2012.
    I am providing you the video of Saina vs Li xuerui's match where Commentator Gill Clark was saying that tournament referee asked Gopichand to check the speed of the shuttle . (Go to the timing- 2.07 minutes).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYLx7Q0KCJk
     
  16. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Tipping may not be allowed because it can be highly subjective and irregular, IMO. It coudl also be considered tampering by some people.


    I believe that shuttlecocks from only one brand (official supplier?) are made available at any tournament. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    If all 3 speeds from brand "x" who is the official supplier are not really up to requirement, can the tournament referee then under the circumstances, not ask for another "y" brand to be tested?

    These are of course, improbably remote cases. The top-quality shuttles from most brands are generally very reliable and consistent for speeds.
     
  17. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    All tipping must be done by the service judge.

    The thing with that is that will get into sponsorship troubles. If Yonex is the official sponsor, and you end up using Li Ning birds, Yonex would not be happy. (Just an example)
     
  18. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Now that you have, do you have any insight into why Kim Her that is obviously clued up, would suggest china could have an influence in making the shuttles "slow"?
    "they may just use it" he said.

    Is it possible that the national association will speak to the shuttlecock company and get them to make all 3 speeds on the slow side
    :D Pretty big conspiracy but it is all I have, unless of course Kim her is just talking rubbish or was reported wrongly.
     
  19. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Now that you have, do you have any insight into why Kim Her that is obviously clued up, would suggest china could have an influence in making the shuttles "slow"?
    "they may just use it" he said.

    Is it possible that the national association will speak to the shuttlecock company and get them to make all 3 on the slow side
    :D Pretty big conspiracy but it is all I have
     
  20. scorpion1

    scorpion1 Regular Member

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    How they differenctiate slow vs medium speed shuttles. Is there any standard to check that?? How a player can differentiate easily as it was said they were allowed to check the speed??
     
    #20 scorpion1, Jul 25, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013

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