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Towel Break

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by pcll99, Aug 18, 2011.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    Cormac!!!!

    excellent umpiring, you made a few really decisive and correct calls, esp overruling the one down the line on LD's side which was incorrectly called by the lineman (and subsequently confirmed so on TV replay). i felt that you gave an authoritative, no non-sense presence up there on the umpire seat. keeping both players in their good behavior, neither of them dared to challenge your calls throughout the game.

    while it will be forever controversial, i think the match point towel break call is a neutral one. it is unclear to me whether LD will be able to gain any more from the break given that he has the momentum going from 20-21 to 22-21.

    i agree with your analysis and trust that you have made the right decision on that call, given that you were closest to the action and has the best feel for the player's intentions. Morten's objections may or may not be correct, but what we know that Morten was for sure on LCW's side as he has show he is quite proud of his prodigy and probably has overlooked the issue with momentum. as i said, it was a neutral call.

    honor to have your presence among us BC'ers.
     
  2. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    another good call was LD's net kill which was contacted over the other side of the net. it was very very close call but also confirmed on TV replay to be a fault.
     
  3. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    Good evening Mr Fault,

    I posted that in the other threat earlier regarding the same subject.
    Any mileages in there?
     
  4. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    .
    But correct me if I am wrong; Currently, Badminton coaches are able to communicate/coach players even when not at any breaks.

    This is different from Tennis, where players are not allowed to communicate with their coaches at all (during a match).
    .
     
  5. Mr. Fault

    Mr. Fault Regular Member

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    Towel break at crucial point in match.

    If Lin Dan had served into the net after taking the break everyone (myself included) would have said that he made a tactical error by asking for and taking the break.

    I would be very interested to get a full understanding of Morten's logic because he has been there but I think that, like most situations on a badminton court, there is no hard and fast rule. The key to surviving in the chair is being flexible.

    It is the same situation with penalties in soccer - do you take a short run-up or a long one. If it goes in then you 'obviously' made the right decision.

    At the time I felt that it was fair to allow the break. I did not think that it was a smart call on Lin Dan's behalf. Morten is right when he said that" play should be continuous" and it had been for quite a while. The match had turned into a duel and it was a case of swapping point for point. A break was due and this just happened to be it.

    Kwun is also right. It was a 50/50 decision. If Lee asked the answer would have been no. Beyond that point the umpire can only be fair to both sides.

    Glad you all enjoyed the great match - I think that I am still shaking!

    Let me have a look at the other issue now.

    Cormac (Mr. Fault)
     
  6. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    :D :D

    i am surprised you didn't fall off that high chair during that nailbiting match! i fell off mine a few times during the early hours here in California and must have woken up a few neighbors as well!
     
  7. BaoQingWang

    BaoQingWang Regular Member

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    Hi Mr. Cormac,

    great to know you are in this forum too.

    with all respect, only one thing that i have to disagree with you that is after 20-all with only one point advantage, especially the new 21 points system, it is hard to say who is breaking whose momentum.
    before that, i agree , one gaining point (momentum) might have better position to request for towel break :)
    but that is just my opinion.
    Have a nice day!

    cheers.
     
  8. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    Mr. Fault, glad to have you here...

    the LCW vs LD in WC2011 is indeed one of the most nailbiting MS matches in the past 5 years... the most nailbiting MS match in the past 5 years, IMHO, was BaoCL vs Lee Hyun-il during Thomas Cup in 2008.... i still remember it vividly to this day... Luo Lan rushed out to give a towel to Bao after the first game had ended.... towel again :)... maybe a towel has special meaning to the Chinese team... :)

    the most memorable badminton match (in all category) in the past 5 years was, IMHO, FuHF/CaiYun vs LeeYD/JJS in 2009 WC (MD final) in India... sadly, a match of that intensity appears only once in a blue moon...
     
  9. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Let us discuss 'towel-break'

    .
    I would guess that sooner or later, the Laws of Badminton could include these 2 conditions (for requesting 'towel-break');

    1. When the score is levelled, both player shall be allowed to request for a 'towel-break'.

    2. When the score is not levelled, only the leading player shall be allowed to request for a 'towel-break'.

    Are these 2 conditions fair enough? Let us discuss. ;););)
    .
     
  10. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    chris,

    sounds like a good idea.... but what about when a player is sweating like it's pouring rain... and that there is a risk of slippery...

    isn't safety the number one factor?
     
  11. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    I do not agree with number two. I was umpiring a junior match this past weekend. I had a kid up 16-5, but his opponent did not give up. He stayed focus and started coming back, soon the score was 16-14, and the kid leading requested for a towel break. Seeing that his opponent scored 9 straight points, I denied his request as it seemed like he was trying to take a break and destroy the momentum his opponent was gaining. The kid who had 5 came back and won that game 22-20.

    So, as mentioned before, I believe it depends on how the game is going. If there are a lot of long rallies and it's been some time since the last interval, as long as it doesn't feel like it will break the momentum of one side, then I shall allow a towel break. That's my procedure on deciding whether or not to allow such a break when requested.
     
  12. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    We shall add in a 3rd condition

    .
    Your comment is a good one. :):):)

    So... We shall add in a 3rd condition (for requesting 'towel-break')

    3. When there is dangerous condition arising on court (slippery/wet floor), the umpire shall call a 'towel-break', so that the floor can be mopped dry. :):):)
    .
     
  13. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    .
    So to solve this problem, Condition No.2 can be amended to;

    2. When the score is not levelled, only the leading player, if having the Service, shall be allowed to request for a 'towel-break'.
     
  14. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Let us discuss 'towel-break': 3 conditions suggested so far

    .
    Summarising Post #32 and #33, we have;

    1. When the score is levelled, both player shall be allowed to request for a 'towel-break'.

    2. When the score is not levelled, only the leading player, if having the Service, shall be allowed to request for a 'towel-break'.

    3. When there is dangerous condition arising on court (slippery/wet floor), the umpire shall call a 'towel-break', so that the floor can be mopped dry.

    I am sure more suggestions will be arriving soon. :):):)
    .
     
  15. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    how about my suggestion in #13 above?
    with added advantage for the rally winner and also an extra dimension of tactic as well.
    if you are fit enough and knowing your opponent is suffering, after you won the fifth point you can forfeit the break and carry on!
     
  16. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    with regarding point 3 and time wasteing in general I'd posted earlier in;

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php/100824-If-I-have-my-way
     
  17. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Unreasonable tactics

    .
    Regarding the changing of the shuttlecock or not (just to waste time), I am sure the umpire can detect what is happening.

    I hope that the umpire would step his/her foot down to such an unreasonable tactics. :(:(:(
    .
     
  18. Hanjo

    Hanjo Regular Member

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    I think my question can fit in here and I don't need to open a new thread.

    I play with a Heart Rate Monitor. Once a while my heart rate reaches my maximum and listening to my body, I'd pause for a breather. But this is only in recreational play.

    My Q: Can I request for such breather/pause in a competition?
     
  19. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    How long would each breather be? There might be trouble if there's repeated 2-3 min breaks in a match. If it's a little shorter and not too often, with a proper medical note or something, then it may suffice. (But don't quote me on this)
     
  20. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    would it be best to write to the umpire and ask for permission before the start of the tournament? and if you do write, would what u write be notified to other players?
     

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