Thanks for visiting us!

Badminton Central is a free community for fans of badminton! If you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community users, it takes less than 15 seconds! Everybody is welcome here.

Click here for a FREE account!

Victor fans club

Discussion in 'Badminton Rackets / Equipment' started by Yoppy, May 2, 2011.

  1. Naim.F.C

    Naim.F.C Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Designer | Entrepreneur
    Location:
    London
    Lol, I meant if the difference was only 2-3g (the difference between the rackets discussed above). Obviously if the difference is greater than it would affect things. Much harder to swing around something heavy than light. Unless of course the 90g racket was head light and the 85g racket was ultra head heavy. Willing to bet that the 85g racket would feel heavier to use.
     
  2. ssj100

    ssj100 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Messages:
    3,777
    Likes Received:
    145
    Location:
    Sietch Tabr
    Yes, for example, sometimes there's only a difference of 1g between a 3U and 4U.
     
  3. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    13,412
    Likes Received:
    231
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Jump, Maklike, Naim

    There is one way how 2 rackets with same bp and wt can swing differently, as we stated above, from different mass distribution. But how?

    Well, here's how. If one racket were heavier in the middle (ie the shaft) while the other was heavier at both ends (ie head and handle), but both weighing the same with the same bp, then it's obvious that the latter one will swing head heavier.
     
  4. Naim.F.C

    Naim.F.C Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Designer | Entrepreneur
    Location:
    London
    Sounds about right :)
     
  5. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    13,412
    Likes Received:
    231
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Yep, the latter will have a greater polar moment of inertia due to it's weight being distributed more towards the ends, and as such is harder to rotate.
     
  6. Maklike Tier

    Maklike Tier Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,503
    Likes Received:
    8
    Occupation:
    Unoccupied
    Location:
    Australia
    Man, this thread should be called the 'Ego fans club' thread!

    Naim, what you need is......a.........FrankenMeteor!

    2 packets of Victor lead weights, go crazy. :)
     
    #246 Maklike Tier, May 17, 2011
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  7. Naim.F.C

    Naim.F.C Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Designer | Entrepreneur
    Location:
    London
    Actually, might try it! Lol. Was waiting on your review of the FrankenSword first. Want to wait and see if it affects speed, aerodynamics etc.
     
  8. jump-smash

    jump-smash Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Sales Manager
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    ok I get it
    thanks to Maklike and Visor for the explanation
    although I've thought of the answer earlier but I kinda doubt myself
    but confirmation from you guys make sure that it's really about mass distribution after all
     
  9. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Sydney
    But how can 2 racket with identical weight have the same BP if one is heavier toward the top on the head and the other on the lower part of the head?? That can't be the case. The 1st racket will have a higher BP.
     
  10. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Sydney
    The critical mass will also affect BP directly
     
  11. jump-smash

    jump-smash Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2010
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Sales Manager
    Location:
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    this very thought here got me doubting myself earlier ...
    now I'm beginning to feel confuse again ...
     
  12. Maklike Tier

    Maklike Tier Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,503
    Likes Received:
    8
    Occupation:
    Unoccupied
    Location:
    Australia
    I think it's a bit incorrect to think that the weight distribution in a racket is an easy thing to comprehend. We really don't have any idea what's going on under the surface - especially in the handle.

    The other thing to consider when talking about 'feel', is that you hold the rackets handle, so what you're feeling doesn't really involve any of the weight of the handle. It's there and it does make a minute difference, but it would be statistically irrelevent I reckon.

    Speaking of weird stuff; can someone tell me how the MX80 can be literally the stiffest racket I've held (aside from the Ti550 VS) and yet it plays without any of the negatives for an intermediate like me? I'm dumbfounded. I'm supposed to hate stiff rackets.
     
  13. Naim.F.C

    Naim.F.C Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Designer | Entrepreneur
    Location:
    London
    I asked myself the same thing. I think because of the aerodynamics of the frame and the woven graphite, you get that speed and stability you don't always find in other rackets, which sort of compensates for the stiffness. A flexible shaft adds a sort of trampoline like flick to swings, but this can be a burden if you're swinging very fast, as it can affect shot angles once the flex corrects itself (straightens). The MX80 is such a fast racket, that you're nearly always swinging at optimum speed, so imo a stiffer shaft helps maintain control and precision.

    Also, one other thing, if you check the string bed, you'll notice that because of the 80 grommet system, it has a larger sweet spot than other rackets. The space at the top and bottom of the strings where there is no string crossing has been reduced.
     
  14. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    13,412
    Likes Received:
    231
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    It's not that hard to understand polar moment of inertia.

    ooOOoo

    OooooO

    If you consider these two rods above, they both weigh the same with the same bp (ie centre of gravity). But the first one has a lower polar moment of inertia while the second has a higher one. The first will be easier to rotate around the z axis, while the second will be harder as the mass distribution at the ends will resist rotation.

    If you like driving cars, you'll understand this concept when comparing mid engine cars vs front engine cars.
     
  15. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Sydney
    OK, so in order to keep the BP constant, the weight is shifted both ways; one to the top and the other to the handle. That makes sense. Does this means that the wood played important part? I always thought they relatively weight the same for the same size.
     
  16. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    13,412
    Likes Received:
    231
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    ^^
    Many people believe the handle mass is irrelevant to the swing, but IMO, it's still important as it is part of the swing because the hand is not static but it is moving thru the stroke during the swing.

    Otherwise, why would the manufacturers use lead weights in the handle core to "balance" their rackets in the final phases of production.

    I've found that even grips of weights differing by 1-2g can affect the swing feel of a racket.
     
  17. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Sydney
    Oh yes I agree with you, especially that grip weight and the handle mass can effect the swing feel.

    I just dont know how the mass can distributed from oo00oo to 0oooo0, without changing the mass on the handle or the right hand side of the BP. In order to keep the BP constant the weight must be distributed to both direction, therefore the question is whether it can be done by just shifting the weight to the bottom end of the shaft or does it have to involve the wood handle or both?? Can you explain more about the lead weight in the handle??
     
  18. Maklike Tier

    Maklike Tier Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,503
    Likes Received:
    8
    Occupation:
    Unoccupied
    Location:
    Australia
    We need to start talking in degrees here though. The distribution of the weight in the head and shaft makes an infinitely bigger difference than 1-2g of overgrip or handle weight.

    "Otherwise, why would the manufacturers use lead weights in the handle core to "balance" their rackets in the final phases of production."


    Because you cannot adjust the BP of a racket's head once it comes out of the mould. If there is a variance outside of the manufacturing tolerance, you need to adjust for that somehow and you can't do that to anything but the handle.
     
  19. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    13,412
    Likes Received:
    231
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Yes, surprise surprise, if you remove the butt cap, you'll often find lead tape or weight glued inside the handle core. Obviously the wt in the handle is important, otherwise the manufacturers won't bother with this step at all.

    Or do you think that manufacturers are "cheating" us by adjusting the balance in this manner if you think the handle wt is not important at all, Maklike?
     
  20. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Sydney
    Last 2 posts above makes perfect sense. Thanks for the insight guys
     

Share This Page