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VIDEO: Finishing knot with no tension loss

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by kwun, Feb 24, 2012.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    some might have seen this knot done in some of my video as well as AK's stringfest video.

    here is the same knot shot with more clarity and detail. i have been using this knot for over 200 string jobs and it is perfect. AK says we need an extra half-hitch but i have skipped it to keep it compact and never found any slippage.

    the key part of this knot is how it allows tensioning on the string using a pair of pliers and it locks the tension in. that eliminates any slack on the knot.

    [video=youtube;-WaZjx6nsaE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WaZjx6nsaE[/video]
     
  2. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    The resulting loop is actually a [Wilson] Pro knot, which is really an under-hand knot. An alternative to try is to go underneath the anchor string before going up through the loop to obtain a slightly bigger knot, which I have switched to using from the Parnell knot.

    I find it interesting that quite a number of stringers on this forum say that this knot is too small and compact for a good tie-off knot while AK is saying that it is the best knot for fighting tension loss.
     
  3. coachgary

    coachgary Regular Member

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    Nice knot. As an aside to your video, do you find it difficult getting the cross through the first shared grommet by the 10o'clock support!
     
  4. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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  5. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    what is an under-hand knot? is it bad?

    i have strung with this knot for the past 2 yrs and with all the ZM62 and BG66UM types up to 29lbs it has never slipped.

    AK actually moved to a different knot which i tried and failed to learn last time he showed me. it has the benefit of being able to post tension the string to eliminate slack, as well as being larger and looks nice too.

    i will try to learn that from him again next time i see him. btw AK will be one of the official stringers at the Olympics this year.
     
  6. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    Here is a illustrated guide to knots which I found recently:

    knotright.gif

    knotleft.gif

    If you inspect the AK-taught knot which you have been using, it is really no different at all from the first knot to the left in the picture. Apologies, the knot is actually an "overhand knot", not underhand as I mistakenly typed :eek:

    What AK did was instead of going under, he simply turned the loop around and then went through it, which is pretty ingenious :D

    When same knot is done on a tennis racquet it looks as such:

    [video=youtube;mGQW_ONBPPo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGQW_ONBPPo[/video]

    The alternative I mentioned is the second one from the left, or "Irvin's Parnell", which gives a slightly bigger knot but it still has the same piece of string (number 3) that you can singe to lock the tension in before finally tightening up the knot.

    Wishing AK all the best for the Olympics :D
     
  7. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    i made a follow up video on tying this knot. now with narration which should clarify some part about this knot. hope it is useful.

    [video=youtube;eATJ9gcGxSw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eATJ9gcGxSw&feature=plcp&context=C4ac20cdV DvjVQa1PpcFOA1uEKiA3Y6IUSZCtYayTewPL_DI0ou4U%3D[/video]
     
  8. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    If you have fixed clamps you can check how much tension you lose on your knot - just unlock the base (and not the jaws) once you've tied it. Seeing the amount of "backslide" will clue you in to an appropriate percentage to add to the last main, if you make a point of adding. There will, of course, be more tension loss as the knot beds in after stringing, but there will be a field of crosses adding a lot of friction, and most of the loss will happen in the seconds right after tying off anyway.

    For reference, the last main is roughly 17 or 18 cm long depending on the pattern (including the loop to the knot), so the clamp base would have to move 1.8 cm for there to be 10% loss. As far as my experience goes, I use the YULitle Parnell - it's easy to get tight, the tail sits flat against the frame, and my clamp base moves less than 0.5 cm when I do the tension-loss-test.
     
  9. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    1.8cm is a 10% loss in length, but way way more than that in tension. or looking at it another way, a loose string with no tension will be more than 0cm.
     
  10. _Rav_

    _Rav_ Regular Member

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    Hmm, tried this for the first time today with mixed results. Definately not as neat as i can achieve with double half hitch (probably down to practice) but also i can't seem to pull out so much slack either. Might be easier with a starting clamp (i used a flying clamp and also flat pliers) but with double hh and the rock method i can get it tighter right now, unless i'm doing something wrong. One other thing, if you pull too tight with pliers on the loop and break it you're in trouble, whereas a double hh you should still be able to get the second hitch in.
     
  11. HappySachs

    HappySachs Regular Member

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    Tried this on my last racket, worked well. At first it wasn't obvious which way I should twist the loop but after studying Blitzzards comments it was fairly straight forwards.

    I had previously been using Yulitle's Parnell and having just had a play around with this knot using an offcut I think you can use a similar procedure to pull tension on the section outside the clamp. I'll give it a try on the next racket I string.
     
  12. jshrmohanty

    jshrmohanty Regular Member

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    What about this?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Sneffe

    Sneffe New Member

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    Thanks for the video. I think you would get a much better result if you shot it from the other side. This way your hands would not be in the way and it would be much easier to see what is being done with the string.
     
  14. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    i agree. i may redo the video for clarity at a later date. but right now i am occupied by other more interesting topics.
     
  15. phaaam

    phaaam Regular Member

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    I've tried the Parnell and the this 'Pro' knot and I prefer the latter because it is a much neater knot. I haven't had any issue of slippage even at 28x30 lbs. on a .66mm string. Also you can still do the 'arching' motion to pull the slack out of the string, just like you would do with a Parnell. Usually I use a flying clamp to help me hold onto the the string while rocking it back and forth then tightening it. I usually do 10% increase tension in the last main string to compensate for any possible tension loss.

    Quick question, if I'm on a 6-point support machine with flying clamps, should I do 23x25lbs. or 24x24 lbs?
     
  16. BaddyGeorge

    BaddyGeorge New Member

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    I gave this a try and I like this pro knot but I did notice a bit of slippage. What would you guys say is the best knot possible?

     
    #16 BaddyGeorge, Dec 20, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
  17. dbswansea

    dbswansea Regular Member

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    I use the parnell.

    where in the uk are you?
     
  18. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Parnell is the definitely the best starting point - it'll cope with moderate tensions on most strings.
     
  19. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    If you get down to Birmingham next year I'll show you my triple Parnell;).
     
  20. dbswansea

    dbswansea Regular Member

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    I'm there, you're letting me do a few racquets for my CV :)
     

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