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Video ref trial at Superseries Finals

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by Loh, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    [​IMG]AFP News – Fri, Nov 8, 2013 6:31 PM SGT

    http://sg.sports.yahoo.com/news/badminton-video-ref-trial-superseries-finals-103117366.html

    Badminton will trial line-call review technology at next month's Superseries finals
    , the world body said Friday, bidding to raise excitement and stamp out faulty decisions which have caused rows in the past.

    Following similar moves in tennis, cricket, football and rugby, players will have two challenges per match during the December 11-15 season finale in Kuala Lumpur.

    The system, using ultra-slow motion cameras, will be set up on the televised show court. Reviews of line-calls, or whether the shuttlecock has dropped in or out, will be judged by the match referee.

    "We know players have been eagerly awaiting the introduction of instant reviews and we are pleased to unveil one of the options and to see how it works," Badminton World Federation (BWF) secretary general Thomas Lund said in a statement.

    "We have done lots of testing during this year's OSIM BWF World Superseries to finalise how this system works and we are confident it will add to the drama and excitement of the Superseries Finals -- both for players and fans.

    "The BWF looks forward to feedback from the players and obviously, if everything goes well, the plan would be to implement instant reviews as soon as possible."

    Video reviews were originally slated to be introduced earlier in the season but they were put on hold after some last-minute hitches.


    Line-calls are a common flashpoint in badminton, with players sometimes accusing officials of making erroneous or biased decisions.

    In one famous incident in 2006, Indonesia's Taufik Hidayat stormed out of a match against China's Lin Dan in Hong Kong after claiming the line-judging was unfair.
     
  2. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    http://www.bwfbadminton.org/news_item.aspx?id=78748

    Singles players or doubles pairs with matches on the TV court will be able to challenge line calls or umpire overrules of line calls. If a line call, after review, is deemed correct the player/pair loses one challenge. Two incorrect challenges means a player/pair will have no more challenges for the duration of the match.However, if the player/pair challenges successfully they do not lose a challenge.Challenges must be made immediately after the shuttle has landed and the call made by the line judge and before the commencement of the serve for the next rally. A player/pair should clearly state “Challenge” to the umpire and signal their request by raising their hand/arm simultaneously.


     
  3. Giga01

    Giga01 Regular Member

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    Finally. I hope this turns out well. 2 successful calls might be too few or perhaps even too many. Hopefully it doesn't take away much from the flow of the game. And just on the TV court, that seems like an unfair advantage that some may use. Wonder if players that complain a lot about the line calls will dare to challenge, perhaps some of those "Complaints" are just a way to psych the opponent.
    I wonder how much BWF feel like they can change this kinds of challenge system after the testing period.

    I'm wondering if you're only allowed to challenge on your side of the court?
     
    #3 Giga01, Nov 13, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  4. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    that's some what clever. at one end, it allows for unlimited "genuine" challenges, eliminating the possibility of linemen influence.

    on the other hand, they limit to 2 potential mistakes or deliberate time delay per match, which is reasonable i guess. just like asking for towel down time.
     
  5. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    About time, I'd say!

    I love watching line call challenges in tennis. The audience participates with great enthusiasm as they crane their heads to watch the big screen overhead, and you can hear them going "Whooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" as they watch the ball head towards the line in slow mo replay. :D

    When they have this in badminton, I'll definitely be one to be enthusiastic to watch these challenges. :D
     
  6. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    I can't wait, I wonder if we will now see a reduction in questioning or if players are going to put their money where their mouth currently is. I see a lot of players (LCW does it a lot) unhappy with the line call when clearly there is nothing much in it, think at the start IF players question like they do now, they are going to lose their 2 challenges pretty quickly:D should be interesting to see how players deal with it.


    @visor it's not going to be a oooooooooooaaaaaaa! because it's not hawk eye. If it is a close call it will be slow mo frames then reverse then slow mo forward again so it will be more like this
    oooo eh? oooo what? oooo ahh!:D
     
  7. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    roflmao... :D
     
  8. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    This will only be a half baked solution, at best. Next, people will be compliant about biased match referee.
    Unlike tennis or cricket, Bwf's opted for the slow-mo replay rather than a computer generated prediction.
    How many times you heard the commentator said after the slow motion replay, "oh, I'm not sure. Too close to call. Glad that I'm not the line judge" etc etc.
     
    #8 AlanY, Nov 13, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2013
  9. yuki onitsura

    yuki onitsura Regular Member

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    I can think of a couple of reasons why they'd opt for the slow motion reviews rather than something like Hawkeye but the main one would probably be cost. Badminton doesn't generate the same revenue as something like tennis and soccer. Outside of Asia, very few people think of it as a mainstream sport. In any case, I think a slow motion replay would work just fine. If the video replay is inconclusive, then the call that was challenged stands as is.

    Glad they learned from tennis' mistake and limited it to two incorrect challenges a match too. I remember when Hawkeye was first introduced to tennis, players would challenge everything that was even remotely close just for the heck of it.
     
  10. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    it is kind of cost. but also the technology currently do not exists. there is hawkeye for tennis, but badminton shuttlecock don't fly like a tennis ball, shuttlescocks are different shape, fly way faster, and have less predictable flight pattern.
     
  11. sjoe

    sjoe Regular Member

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    I believe Hawkeye technology is patterned and is expensive to use because they are charging too much.
    Hawkeye is combination of video shot and software. Too avoid cost and being sued, video referee is a safe alternative which has been use in sport like rugby.
    it will be like rugby where the big screen will flip to "In" or "Out".
     
  12. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    The video slow-mo replays as currently existed seem to serve well.

    Most TV viewers at home would probably agree that they can easily determine whether the bird is "in" or "out" when viewing such replays.

    This will certainly shut out many complaints of biased judging although the challenge is limited to two only in any one match. But as explained, the limitation is to reduce the number of frivolous challenges and time wastage.
     
  13. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I guess they would be using some hi frame rate speed cameras. Should be good enough and it's up to tournament organisers and marketing to use it to raise intensity of the moment.
     
    #13 Cheung, Nov 17, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  14. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    I assume you read above but just in case it was not clear, you can challenge 20/30/100 times in a match as long as you are correct every time in the challenge.
     
  15. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Thanks for the clarification.

    I assume you are correct as the earlier press statement did not elaborate on your point but it has been covered by others.

    But yes the two challenges referred to are for unsuccessful ones.
     
  16. *___*

    *___* Regular Member

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    I believe hawkeye costs $100k per tournament.

    I could be wrong but it's certainly above Badminton's budget :(
     
  17. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    So if there's about 50 line challenges per tournament, that's $2000 per challenge. Pretty reasonable. :)

    But that could work out to all of the prize money for the tournament. :eek:
     
  18. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    on average, i think each match there might be 1 or 2 questionable calls. hardly do we see anything higher than that. it happens, but very rare.

    the only abuse of the system would be if a player was fatigue near the end of the game, and as a result made an erroneous judgement on reading the line, then he/she might go ahead and ask for a review anyway. it is at the end of the match anyway, so not really at much of a cost to them, and they get to take a breather.

    but this will be even more rare of a case.
     
  19. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    Ahh, now kwun brings up an excellent point.

    The big thing now is how long would all of this take? Now players can use this as an extra advantage. You're up 20-19, shuttle lands near the line, it lands in, you know it lands in, but you're tired and have both of your challenges. You decide to just waste 1 right now to take a little breather.

    As you know, some umpires are strict on delaying of the game, now using this, you can take an extra little breather that you would normally not get.
     
  20. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    yeah. i think the design was partly smart. or at least, it was naturally this way.

    i think the key here is the opportunity. the player will have to lose a point before they can invoke a review. that makes it very different than a time out or towel break request, in which they can request without cost. to use a delibrately use a line review request as a breather, player incur a real cost of losing a point first.
     

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