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VIVO BWF SUDIRMAN Cup 2015 : Day 4 - Group Stage Matches (13th May 2015)

Discussion in 'Sudirman Cup 2015' started by CLELY, May 12, 2015.

  1. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I'm afraid not many people know of this. Most thought it arose from what happened at the London Olympics WD fiasco.

    I happened to read the strategic manipulation ruse was engineered by Korea in the 2008 Thomas Cup where, as you said, they used doubles player to play singles so as to first lose to ENG and MAS then beat the weak CAN team to advance to the Quarterfinals just so to avoid CHN and host INA until the penultimate and final rounds. Exactly how I'm not sure as the writer didn't explain in detail except to say it forced BWF to resort to introducing redraw after the group qualification stage to determine the quarterfinalists matchups at the 2011 Sudirman Cup and 2012 Thomas and Uber Cups yet the same system wasn't implemented at the August 2012 London Olympics which also implemented the group play system.
     
  2. kelana

    kelana Regular Member

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    I just read the 2008 Thomas Cup, interesting, KOR lost all the group stage matches but eventually made it into the final facing CHN (lost 1-3). And one can clearly see why they did so (esp. MAS must be cursing back then) :) what a bizarre match-up system then :eek: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Thomas_&_Uber_Cup
     
    #242 kelana, May 13, 2015
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  3. gopalprasad

    gopalprasad Regular Member

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    A tournament which makes IND coaches think about many what could have beens.... great food for thought. No doubt IND was in the toughest group, no doubt they had the potential but there are many things which IND did wrong on strategizing IMHO thats excuseless.... The players did what they could.
    KOR showed PK err IND its place.... Hopefully JG would keep her mouth shut and let her results talk...
    Satisfied with how Saina, KS & AP/JG faired, PK was a let down and he should start thinking of alternate career choices now so should the doubles pair of MD and XD. IND needs to look beyond for doubles, start from scratch & groom future. These players arent going to improve to trouble any of the other teams in the QF. Unless IND changes drastically in the system for doubles there is no point sending the team to Team championships.

    Somewhere I read that its not CHNs responsibility to bring the world to its level, they need to figure it out, well no, with the way trends are showing it has now become so, they need to bring others to atleast some notches above cause otherwise its no fun watching a championship where the winner is already decided 4 years before the tournament commences. So long and so big a domination isnt good for the game. And the world has already passed the stage after a decade of such a domination. A David vs Goliath always draws a crowd and is exciting but never 5 Davids vs 5 Goliaths playing after each another.

    Forgone conclusion that the CHN are going to be the champions, race is on for 2nd, 3rd, 4th places & the potentials all have big weaknesses atleast in 2 out of 5 disciplines. Not a good sign for the rest of the world. If things continue this way for the next team cups lets award CHN without even playing while the tournament can run to decide the standings from 2nd onwards.

    The other teams look so weak that there doesnt seems an iota of a chance for surprises anymore. The most hopefuls KOR and JPN seem quite weak. Though JPN is in better shape than KOR. Mal seems to be at the same level so does DEN. all in all the difference between the 2nd tier is lessened(more because it has degraded) while 1st tier only contains CHN.


    Coming back to IND, yeah they showed they have potential the thing that would excite now is there city championships. Any info on the IBL, its an year already.... dates not yet confirmed?
     
    #243 gopalprasad, May 13, 2015
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  4. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Thanks for the reminder!
     
  5. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Seriously, though, think about it. Is there really any incentive for the coaches or Indian badminton to place any priority on the Sudirman Cup? Or will they prefer to concentrate on resources on a select few to produce that one World Champion, or Olympic Champion?
     
  6. KB@TB Em

    KB@TB Em Regular Member

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    I really don´t like the draw :/ :/
    As a German ofc not, but they did well to reach QF and wouldn´t stand a real chance against the other seeded QF teams.
    But I´m pissed by the TV court line up. How can one not put KOR _ MAS on center court?????? CHN _ GER will be 5:0, for spectators completly uninteristing. AND we will see CHN in the SF and F for sure. so why the f put this match on TV court. Damn, I need to calm down, but i can´t understand such incompetency...

    For all the QF I just see 4 interesting matches within MAS-KOR, 3 for DEN-JAP, maybe 1 for CHN-GER and 2 for IND-TPE, but thats just my personal opinion.
    We have to wait for the SF and F to have the big guns meeting each other.

    I really hoped MAS and KOR could advance, but now I ll see a nice match in the QF I hope.
     
  7. Woffle

    Woffle Regular Member

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    It's in China, of course people involved will want CHN match on broadcast court. Unfortunate but that's how things are at the SS level and at a Cup level it just sort of thrusts it into the spotlight because there are only 1 or 2 'team matches' every day.
     
  8. Lokesh

    Lokesh Regular Member

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    "The promoters of the Indian Badminton League (IBL), Sporty Solutionz, are considering legal action against Badminton Association of India in the wake of reports that BAI has terminated the tournament agreement with them."

    This was the recent news . So, there would not be any signs of IBL going to take place in near future. And also reports(rumours) in the media that it may happen after Olympics.

    Coming to the performance of indian players in Sudhirman cup 2015, it is clearly visible that there was a complete wrong decision in choosing players for today's tie. India has weak doubles. So, they should have ensured atleast for sure single points. But they fielded PK instead of KS. If you win 2 points, that will give a boost for doubles players to perform well. Complete failure.:crying:
     
    #248 Lokesh, May 13, 2015
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  9. kelana

    kelana Regular Member

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    Devendra already addressed this court issue earlier in his post #210, now hidden in the pile of posts :)

     
  10. Lokesh

    Lokesh Regular Member

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    The player who took COmmonwealth games gold won her match against current world champion carolina marin in group match.

    Li Michelle . What's her age? Is she that much good? .

    Though we must consider that Carolina has been playing doubles as well in this tournament. But nothing to be taken away from this canadian player. Good victory (visible from the scoreline)
     
  11. edwin

    edwin Regular Member

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    Michelle is born in Nov 1991, so that would make her 23 at this moment.
     
  12. indrg

    indrg Regular Member

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    Shall INA play Angga Pratama / Ricky Karanda Suwardi vs. Tsai Chia Hsin / Lee Sheng Mu?
    Ahsan/Setiawan always have a hard time playing this Taipei MD pair.
     
  13. kelana

    kelana Regular Member

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    I don't see it as any hindrance to the progress of badminton when some nation excels more than the others. It happens in basketball, table tennis and other sports and they remain popular.

    Since I watch table tennis considerably, I can tell that in table tennis thing is even more obvious yet it's expanding healthily and in fact the ITTF has become the world's largest sports body in terms of membership recently, now has membership of 222 national associations. Their Pro Tour schedules are quite busy the entire year, with excellent organizing, publications, and worldwide coverages incl. the unmatched ITTF's own live streaming as witnessed in the very recent WTTC in Suzhou involving over 1,000 matches in the 8-day runs. Other nations are still fighting quite vigorously for the coveted #2 in case of the team events or the Top-4 in the individual ones, and more importantly the fans are still watching the very high quality games from those top players. Of course one won't see the peculiarities such as repeatedly calls of service faults or scoring inaccuracy there :p
    Indeed there are still a lot of aspects to improve by BWF to grow the badminton healthily worldwide, and of course BWF can learn from other more successful sport bodies, such as ITTF!
     
  14. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    Not included to give the young players a chance to gain experience. He is no longer aiming for Rio either so no point in investing in him as a player ...
     
  15. gopalprasad

    gopalprasad Regular Member

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    I am not saying Badminton is going to lose the popularity it has in short term atleast there is a race amongst the nation for the number 2 spot. Neither am I saying CHN should deteriorate I want to see more competitive matches, the game evolve. I want to see the game getting more competitive. How many of us would rather watch a competitive 100 meter race than one where only Jamaica wins the top 3 medals always like for a decade and the race doesn't remains competitive anymore. If you take out the surprise from a FIFA world cup would it still be the same? My point is to make badminton thrive and improve its quality also becomes CHN responsibility since its the cause for making it uninteresting/unsurprising for the rest of the world [;)] And they are definitely doing their bit by not letting more than 3 players remain in the top 20 for each discipline I am pretty sure it has been their policy for quite long to restrict the number of their players playing at that level. They only have replacement players play once the time of one amongst their top 3 is done with. If this sheer dominance continues it would be very hard for badminton and TT to remain Olympic games.

    My wish is to see badminton being played at the most competitive level in the finals and being contributed by many nations not the one where you find it difficult to field 64 decent players at a Super Series level and so your SS levels are played by only 32 players.

    What would you rather watch a competitive final like TC between CHN-JPN where Japanese can also win or a tournament where you already know that the winner, the runer up and the 2nd runner up is pre decided and its just a formality, even if you do that, for how long would you continue liking that?(You need to be a non-chinese to be impartial to answer that[:)]) Its not just the beauty of a game but also the competitveness, the great rivalries, surprises, the toughness & the quality of participants that contributes to the popularity of any sport. Initially a Federer can come as a breeze, his play & technique can awe people but if its always Federer vs somebody who cant even return his shots I dont think people would still be in awe of the player for long, they might rather watch the match between no2 and no3. Federer needs a Nadal as the rival who can make him work hard and contiue improving ad makes the game thrive IMHO.
     
    #255 gopalprasad, May 14, 2015
    Last edited: May 14, 2015
  16. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    the problem is that badminton players are so tied to their nation they represent. this is why this discussion even exists. no one, i mean, zero person complained when Sampras and Agassi rivalry was practically dominating the tennis pro single tournaments, even though those are technically USA vs USA matches. did you complain? did you say, "who wants to watch USA vs USA matches anyway?" so why moan about China vs. China or Jamaica vs. Jamaica?

    if one day we can see badminton players as individuals instead of where they come from, see them with their personal characters and technical merits, badminton will be a much better world.
     
  17. sjoe

    sjoe Regular Member

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    100% agree with Kwun.
     
  18. kelana

    kelana Regular Member

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    Those top tennis players can afford living on their own feet cuz tennis is poured in a huge cash (prize money, sponsorships, etc) due to its status as one of the quite few elevated status as the "jewel case sports". The banking and financial industry provides a lot of cash there, they are quite generous in sponsoring their activities, the mainsteam media & TV networks do involve greatly by giving out the constant limelight as well. Just won't see such elevation possibility in any other sports nowadays, esp. that now the world's economy is struggling hard.
     
  19. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    You seem to suggest that the problem lies in the eyes of the fans, and not in the players and the league. Though I agree a great proportion of fans sees badminton as a team sport played by nation, we also have to acknowledge that is the way the sport is organized, perhaps because of the reason stated by Kelana, but perhaps also for others as well.
     
  20. kelana

    kelana Regular Member

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    For obvious reasons I explained repeatedly, badminton, and many other sports won't ever have the level status as the tennis, soccer, golf, boxing etc. It's up to one's made belief to take this reality or ignore it.

    I don't see it as any responsibility of one single nation to upgrade the level of competitiveness of this sport, badminton, or any other things in this world. It will be up to each nation to strive to increase its competitiveness. Japan is a good example, they invest in Park Joo Bong for extended period (indeed for how many years have they been hiring Park), and I believe, pour in lots of cash in its badminton to grow it.

    I don't think TT or badminton is facing any threat to be removed from Olympics. There are still many much less popular branches there that they'll have to deal first before dealing with TT or badminton... in fact those branches that only come into our notices once every four years. Needless to say, not only TT or badminton that needs its inclusion into Olympics, but Olympics also need popular sports to be included to attract viewers & other interest. Do you think how many population are really interested to watch those Equestrian; Fencing; Modern Pentathlon; Canoeing; Rowing; Taekwondo; Triathlon; Water Polo; and so on?

    A fan of badminton will remain watching it for enjoying the superior skills of the players. It's up to each perception whether one will enjoy more the match of two so so skillful players cuz they come from different nations or a match of the highest level even though they belong to the same nation. Just ask any friend of yours who watch TT, were the finals between Ma Long vs Fang Bo or Ding Ning vs Liu Shiwen in recent WTTC anything less spectacular?

    And in reality the China's dominance in badminton is not such overwhelming to the extend that other nations are unable to compete at all. We watched Japan took the TC last year. Such sheer dominance of theorized reality is simply not there, a nonexistent idea.
     
    #260 kelana, May 14, 2015
    Last edited: May 14, 2015

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