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Which should I go for?

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by llpjlau, Aug 19, 2011.

  1. llpjlau

    llpjlau Regular Member

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    I'm after my first stringing machine and these are the two that I have in mind

    Klippermate M140 Badminton Stringer: http://www.klipperusa.com/products/productdetail.php?catnum=M140
    Total cost including shipping is US$346.40
    includes 2 badminton clamps, pliers, awl, pack of strings, overgrip.

    or

    Eagnas Hawk 16: http://www.eagnas.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=23_40&products_id=238
    Total cost including shipping is US$239
    includes 2 PN-3050 badminton clamps, 1 DP-507 diagonal cutter, 1 NP-500 needle nose pliers, 1 BS-909 badminton awl, and 1 PN-3092 string mover.


    The Hawk 16 is considerably cheaper and I'm thinking it might be a better buy for a first-time stringer like me.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    both machines have severe limitation being that they don't have side support. IMHO it is very important to have side support when stringing a badminton racket, esp for beginners. you will find that you will outgrow the machine very soon.

    see if you can stretch your budget a little more for this:

    http://www.mybadmintonstore.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=25_62_156&products_id=337

    the shipping you quote is rather high, as much as the cost of the machine, you get much better value by going with the Hi-Qua. you might even be able to find some available in your country.
     
  3. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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  4. CanucksDynasty

    CanucksDynasty Regular Member

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    Just go for the best. Yonex ES5 I think. Only cost a kidney ($7K).
     
  5. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I cannot really agree with the side support. If the racket is correctly and tightly mounted, it should handle any job up to 28lb without any issues. I've finished about 1,000 jobs on M140, many above 25lbs, so far nothing bad happend yet. :p
     
  6. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    I second what Master LB said. I lost count of the wacket I string on my M140. But I can tell you last one I did was a AT900T at 27lb and it sounds fine. And yes, 28 lb and 10% over the recommended tension is prob the max without any additional support. Yes, for the beginner with M140, high tension will be very risky. once you know how to secure the posts, the M140 is actually not to bad.
     
  7. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    I do agree. If you have the technique right, it should be fine with tension up to 32lbs. ;)

    I strung a lot of high tension rackets even without support. As long as the tension is consistent, you should be ok. ;)

    The only pain is dealing with older rackets where the grommet is old and at times it cuts the string. Am sure some of you are familiar with this. ;)
     
  8. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    The main problem I have with the Hawk-16 is, the base looks to be too small, therefore un-stable. Unless $100 is really the key issue, otherwise, I will say save a bit longer, and go for the M140. If you have the technique, it will give you quality jobs from 18lbs to 28lbs, without any issues.
     
  9. Josico

    Josico Regular Member

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    could you elaborate on what you mean by correctly? i am a beginner stringer and just got the m140 as well. all the racquets i have strung is slightly deformed (head is shorter and wider). i read that this is due to the lack of side supports. is this related to what you are talking about?

    thanks
     
  10. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    Please go to the M140 instruction post. you will see what the "correctly"" means.
     
  11. bsmith

    bsmith Regular Member

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    I have a six point machine, but have often wondered how so many people claim to be able to string at high tensions on two point machines and not deform the racket as Josico has experienced. Out of curiosity, I dug through the M140 instruction post http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php/44504-Klipper-M140-Stringing-Instruction/page6 and read on post #96 by Pete LSD the necessary techniques to prevent this, either temporary initial supporting crosses or an add-on support device.

    Just shows how much can be done when resources are limited, but willingness to take time and trouble are not limited. But gosh, it only takes a little more money to get a machine with six point suspension. And with higher tensions becoming more common and useful to players at all levels, to me it seems very short sighted to buy a two point suspension machine.
     
  12. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Stringing at higher tensions

    .
    It is always riskier to string at higher tension than the recommended tension specified by the racket manufacturers.

    To string at higher tensions than the manufacturer's specifications, much attention is needed to balance out the strain to any sections of the racket-head.

    Even if the racket-head survives the high tension stringing, it might crack just after a few mishits while playing.
    .
     
  13. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    Please do not categorize all the 2pt mounted machines the same. I personally feel Eagnas Hawk 2 pt machine is not fit for badminton.
    I do not believe buying M140 is a short sighted move based on the following vs 6 pt mounting machine.
    1) Mounting/unmounting are quicker.
    2) Simple to maintain and almost never breaks down.
    3) more room for me to weave cross.
    4) Price is cheaper than most of 6 pt mount machine.

    IMHO, 28lb (max tension I will go without additional support) is high tension for 90% of non pro players. Often time, that tension feels the same as 30 lb on most of the 6 pt mounting machine. If you push the post in first and check if the post is mounted right, that will eliminate 99% of the distortion issue. Yes, in 2 weeks, I will have a Wilson Baiardo Machine. Does it do better job than my current M140 machine? Yes. But not because the 6pt mounting, but because all other functions.
     
  14. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    2pt with extra tension on the cross to undistort the frame shape will feel tighter than the equivalent tension on 6 pt. the reason is that when you undistort, you inevitably have to stretch the main strings which increases the tension.



    how much did that new toy cost you??
     
  15. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    No, i mean for the same the same tension on the mains/cross. Given 2 racquets same 22.5x25 lb, 1 on 6 pt mount eagnas crank with proper calibration (locked out at 25.5 lb when it set at 25 lb to take out the CP issue) vs M140, the the m140 feel tighter. My observation is that since the racquet is not hold down during cross tensioning, the top actually widen. When you finished stringing, the racquet is back to the same shape. that mean the bottom part actually expend a little which will have higher tension.

    You know me, I do not pay retail or even the street price. The street price is about $6,000. Since it is a demo, a lot less. Better deal than I can get with same condition ES5Pro Tech from Evil Empire.
    Will show some pictures after I get back from US Open in NY.
     
  16. bsmith

    bsmith Regular Member

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    Ok, all the masters of 2 pt machines, chief among them Silentheart, have convinced me that even a beginner, if well educated on the proper techniques, can produce a safe and quality string job up to 28 lbs. tension if using a high quality 2 pt. machine and a suitable racket.

    The only catch to this is that the beginner does need to study the advanced instructions found here on BC. My understanding is that the standard instructions typically given with two point machines do not include advanced techniques such as using temporary initial crosses. As a result, a lot of beginners encounter the same experience Josico did with obtaining distorted rackets. My guess is that there are a lot more new stringers in Josico's situation encountering problems with 2 pt machines than there are ones doing perfect strings jobs with them. Of course, that is 100% correctable if they would all just join BC and learn what's up. ;)

    I think we also all agree that six pt suspension is better than two pt suspension, and that if the budget allows for it, go with six pt. suspension even on your very first stringing machine.
     
  17. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    OK, I will make an offer to dear members here. I will shoot a video of M140 instruction if someone else can put it on Youtube or some thing like that. If someone will do it. I will throw in my tour of Baiardo machine too.
     
  18. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    sure. i can help... ;)
     
  19. Josico

    Josico Regular Member

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    I feel honoured to have contributed to a topic which will result in a video helping all beginners with stringing! :D

    That being said, I should have noted that I wasn't even stringing at high tensions - 20x22 (60x65 on the scale) on a new Yonex VT80. I have a few other VT80s to compare the shape.

    I've read the huge thread and tried the techniques as well and still have had the same unwanted results.

    To be clear, my first try, the racquet looked like a circle (almost). As I tightened the racquet closer to the metallic edges of the leather clamps and did the push in test on the stands, I'm at about half a frame thick deformation.

    So a few questions are left in my mind:

    1. Is this an "acceptable amount" of deformation or should there really be none?
    2. Should I be doing the cross stringing trick even on lower tensions?

    Thanks everyone!
     
  20. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Do not do the cross stringing on lower tensions

    .
    Do not do the cross stringing on lower tensions.

    You should do the opposite (that is; to do on higher tensions for the crosses).

    If the tension of the crosses is lower than the tension of the mains, the tension of the mains will pull the top part of the racket-head down towards the throat; And you will end up with a rounded racket-head.
    .
     

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