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who's to blame for the match throwing?

Discussion in 'Olympics LONDON 2012' started by kwun, Aug 1, 2012.

?

who's to be blamed for the match throwing?

  1. The players are at fault for throw matches

    2 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. BWF is to blame for implementing group structure

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. no one / other are to be blamed.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. both players and BWF are to be blamed

    4 vote(s)
    66.7%
  1. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    .
    Well, BWF has never disqualified players/teams in the past when match-fixing was so obvious - When one player/pair gave walkover to teammates, and/or when one team lose to another on purpose.

    We can remember how KOR manuplitated their advancement at the Thomas Cup fixture some years ago.
    .
     
  2. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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    It was hard not to punish that kind of blatant disregard to the basic concept of competing. However, it is just hypocritical for IOC, BWF and media to jump on the badminton players.

    Whenever the competition is not a straight knock-out format, this kind of thing is bound to occur. It's just that round robin format is so unusual in badminton such that badminton players don't have any experience in faking the results like athletes in other sports. Faking in soccer is common, just like what the Japanese team did. But they would never score on their own goals like WD pairs were essentially doing.

    It is particularly appalling that BWF took no responsibility, was not proactive (e.g. forcefully warning the teams), and did nothing to use the scandal to promote badminton with good PR spinning. This just confirms what a bunch of idiot these people are. It is really sad for badminton.
     
  3. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    The key is not "common" or "lack of practice", it's because both sides want to lose. Be it soccer, or any sports, if both sides want to lose, besides things like "own goal" or so, there's nothing better you can do. Trust me, when both want to lose, the "competition level" is even higher than both want to win.
     
  4. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    Sorry to bring up this old chat, I believe the Chinese coaches were not punished in this at all?

    Also, I just came back from the US Adult Trials, just a little tidbit I picked up was that Torsten Berg chose not to give the black card in that situation. He wanted it to go to the disciplinary committee where they were planning to disqualify the players anyways. The discplinary committee was to also punish the coaches in their roles as well rather than just black carding the players in the match. But like I stated, I believe no Chinese coaches got punished, am I right?
     
  5. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    i believe you are right. no Chinese coach was punished.

    in fact I think LYB may get promoted soon!!! and LYB's boss may get elected president of BWF in May 2013!!!

    hahaa..
     
  6. RedShuttle

    RedShuttle Regular Member

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    Since the act was committed with good, if misguided, intentions, even if there was punishment, it would be done quietly. KBA's throwing the coaches under the bus made no sense.

    Nevertheless, there is now a new WD head coach for the Chinese team. It is not clear whether the change is related to the event at the Olympics.

    What I want to know is whether any BWF official was punished for putting the sport in such a precarious position. The inaction of the head referee also directly led to the disqualification of the players in the second match.
     
  7. mikeyapkf

    mikeyapkf Regular Member

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    The fault lies with the structure ( round robin ). Clearly the players and coach are taking advantage of this setup to get both their team in. Humans are intelligent species and how can you blame them? Just review and eliminate the round robin format as it serves no purpose. Instead of letting the players play in a pool, it would be better to have more players participate in a KO format.
     
  8. ChubbyCheshire

    ChubbyCheshire Regular Member

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    The trouble with a non-round robin format for the Olympics is that it is a long way to travel to be knocked out after one game !

    Perhaps they should use same format as the Commonwealth Games, so there is an individual event and a team event, so you get to play at least twice !
     
  9. Fornax

    Fornax New Member

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    100% Players to blame. Olympics isn't just a sports event, it's a showcase of human achievement. For the Chinese and Korean pairs to stoop so low in an event such as the Olympics only showcases their shallow sporting values. I cannot blame the format, the whole risk aversion argument is completely unrelated.

    I just cannot understand why I had to bear the same players on TV after their shameful acts.

    Lastly, the coaches, badminton association don't play on the court, and I believe they were all adults.
     
  10. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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  11. terranerbana

    terranerbana Regular Member

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    Olympics are a showcase of nationality / national egotism, this is the main reason why it is hyped. As a sports event it is even not on the highest level.

    And actually Olympics is the sports event with the most discrimination. In particular leads to ridiculous things, such as changing of nationalities of several athletes.
     
  12. Littlejohn

    Littlejohn Regular Member

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    Haven't read any of the previous 11 pages relating to this issue so please excuse me if these points have been raised before

    1 Whilst it may have been not in the Olympian spirit, what happened was totally in line with at least the chinese attitude, to win and put ones nation first.

    2 Players are told that the Olypics are the highlight of their career, that they are unlikely to make two games, so make the most of the chance they are given, so is it any wonder that they (and their coaches) play the system to ensure they progress onto the next rounds, Is what they did really anything different thab say the England football manager leaving out his best striker and defenders when his team have qualified so as to be able to field a stronger side next match...both are playing the system
    The main disappointment for me was that blatent way this happened, I was only an average club player but Im certain I could have thrown the games whilst still making it look as if I was trying
     
  13. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Well I hope all the "it was bwf that was wrong " people are happy. Because the format has been changed(ruined) now to redraw after group stage instead of just dealing with cheats if the situation may arise. So the new format not only does it contridict the whole point of that format it is boring to watch the same folk against each other straight after group. I would rather watch cheating.
     
  14. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    there is a way to draw it in such a way that the same folk won't play each other straight away. i guess BWF just isn't smart enough to figure that out.
     
  15. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Yeah true they could fix say group a and draw by lot group b to see who played who from group a but.. The whole point is you want to see the top of one group v the 2nd of the other. Then if you have a talent heavy group you end up with the best 2 in the final. The ss finals events that were redrawn same folk again was just stupid, for me it just devalues the game completely. Either go straight to a final or have it as normal and fair as before the change.
     
  16. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    actually, not quite true. we have implemented this draw-after-group system in a local team tournament and it works well.

    it was done precisely to make sure no team try to game the system (as it had happen before, where team scout will go around the tournament hall figuring out the standings of their potential opponents). in the end, no team dare to sandbag during the group matches and the matches ended up competitive.
     
  17. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    You will have to excuse me, but what are you finding "not quite true"?

    Let's use just 2 groups and top 2 go through for example (like ss finals) if there is ANY sort of redraw it means one of 3 things
    1. The same 2 players play against each other straight away after group = silly.
    2. The top ranked team from 1 group plays the top ranked team fro the other group = unfair as you have gained a lesser advantage than the folk you beat to top the group. And as I said this unfairness to me devalues the game and makes it look silly.
    3. The top from one group plays runner up from the other and vice versa = the fair and proper way and why the format was invented in the first place.

    If there is a chance of point 1 or 2 happening then for me it ruins it.
    Given if we go from group to elimanation that's all I can see unless that system you talk of does something completely different that I have misunderstood.
     
  18. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    right. i was thinking about the general case where there are more than 2 groups.

    2 groups, well, it will be hard, too little combination.
     
  19. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

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    As a football fan who is also a badminton fan, I find it just silly to discuss this issue so long and so thorough.

    Because well, it happens everytime in football

    Just look at that Olympic 2012 where Japan drew against Honduras or the Champions league where teams often field weaker teams or don't play seriously in the last day of the match. There is also the Aljazair-Germany incident at the world cup

    so I think we should accept that people will always try to win by using the means allowed by the rules, although it seems cheating to others

    that is the problem with a league or half competition format. because unlike KO formats where you must always be at your top, and the league formats, you can afford to not play your best to gain advantage at another match.
     
  20. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    For the Olympics, i think BWF should have followed the UEFA Championship League format. I have two suggestions in mind.

    Country Coefficient

    BWF should have used country coefficient so that the best three countries can send for example four players/pairs each, the next best three countries can send three players/pairs each, the next best nine countries can send two players/pairs each, the rest can send one, etc...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Country_coefficient

    For instance, BWF can use the performance of a country in the various Level 1 and Level 2 events in the last three or four years to determine the country coefficient.

    The Draw

    After the group stage is over, the draw should again be done similar to UEFA Championship League.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_UEFA_Champions_League_knockout_phase

    For Rio, maybe it's too late for implement the above. But for the year-end World Superseries Finals 2016, they can try it out. But the World Superseries Finals needs to award the same world ranking points as the BWF world championships so as to attract the best players to come.
     
    #200 pcll99, Feb 4, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016

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