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who's to blame for the match throwing?

Discussion in 'Olympics LONDON 2012' started by kwun, Aug 1, 2012.

?

who's to be blamed for the match throwing?

  1. The players are at fault for throw matches

    2 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. BWF is to blame for implementing group structure

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. no one / other are to be blamed.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. both players and BWF are to be blamed

    4 vote(s)
    66.7%
  1. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    kwun, can we add the following the poll options please :D:

    * The Danes for winning
    * The Coach or Coaches
    * BWF for condoning years and years of throwing games
    * President of IOC Jacques Rogge for being there to witness the farce
     
    #21 pcll99, Aug 1, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  2. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    Indonesia, korea and china all found guilty of breaking rules. They officially got found guilty of breaking rules in Sections 4.5 and 4.16, Bwf the official regulatory body's words not mine. Now to put it very simply for you - when you break the rules you can be classed as a cheat. This is official not matter of my opinion.
     
  3. Vomit

    Vomit Regular Member

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    Personally I feel sorry for the players who have been disqualified, they would have surely been instructed by their coaches to throw the match.
     
  4. kinetics

    kinetics Regular Member

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    Exactly. Some of you guys are blaming the players entirely and I'd have to disagree. I'm pretty sure that those pairs were mandated by their coaching staff to lose.

    What if you choose not to lose? Then you lose favour in your national association and get booted out eventually. And the sad part is, BWF grants more power to the national associations than the individual players themselves to determine who plays in the important tournaments.

    For example, look at the Malaysian men's doubles team in the 2011 BWF World Championships. Zakry/Hoon were only the 4th ranked men's pair but they were chosen over 2 other higher ranked Malaysian pairs just because those players are independent players. I can also name countless players in China who got kicked out of the national squad because they played in the best interest of themselves rather than their country.

    So players HAVE to cheat if they want to be included in the top tournaments. Otherwise, they don't get to play at all. And this all comes back to BWF and their terrible structure.

    BWF's idea to implement round robin was also incredibly incredibly stupid.
     
  5. tranqq

    tranqq Regular Member

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    In that same section there is a section on unsportsmanlike conduct.. according to you then..if someone is caught being unsportsmanlike it's called cheating. Or if someone doesn't show up for a match... that would also be cheating. Clearly there are rules in the book that are there to uphold the integrity of the sport (as there should be) but that doesn't automatically mean cheating in the sense that we know it. These players definitely did wrong in terms of sportsmanship and respectable sporting conduct. But do you really consider that cheating? I think the players and coaches did irreversible damage to their personal characters and to the sport of badminton..but I think disqualifying them is a mistake. A hefty fine would have been much better. I think it's clear this isn't entirely their fault..it's the tournament organizers for using this format. It's like putting a kid next to an open cookie jar. Telling him not to have any but leaving it there to be tempted by..it's is a form of entrapment. This is the olympics... emotions are high and judgements aren't always going to be clear and concise. Shame on them for inviting this to happen and punishing them for it in the worst possible way.
     
  6. tranqq

    tranqq Regular Member

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    I should also point out that officially it's just a code of conduct.. not a rule book.
     
  7. wlachan

    wlachan Regular Member

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    People play by the rules. You don't blame the players when the rules are stupid.
     
  8. jkkwongnz

    jkkwongnz Regular Member

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    Personally I think players have right to reserve their energy for the games which is more important. They also likely to throw the game because they want to reserve energy for the next games which will decide whether they are in the semifinal. I think BWF make stupid decision to disqualify them. That decision hurt everybody including the sport, BWF itself, audience who are deprived of the best WDs in the final apart from the players which were involved. I don't think it hurt too much about the chance for the chinese team to grab the gold.

    You can see often in soccer in the west, they clear the bench for less meaningful game to rest their important players. We as audience couldn't argue that they didn't play in full strength and therefore disqualified them.













     
  9. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    It is cheating by definition(check a dictionary - to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice) sorry if you find that word offensive but i am only using the most appropriate word for what has happened. Now cheating is an English word and I promise you this is one of/it's definition so i am not sure who the "we" you talk of with regards to the sense of the word cheating but their wrong.
     
  10. tranqq

    tranqq Regular Member

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    you're taking the word of of context. If a player while in a match decides to lose 4 points in a row in order to catch their breath because they feel like they have a better chance of winning if they do so. Would you call that cheating? They are most certainly being deceitful and are trying to influence their opponent to think they have mentally given up and the match will be easy. It's not that black and white. Just because you can use an english dictionary doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.
     
  11. groovyshot

    groovyshot Regular Member

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    I don't know why everyone is appalled by this behavior of these "Professional" badminton players and Pro/National organizations.

    How often have we witnessed sleeper finals where it's one national player vs another from the same national team and tanking it, despite the public paying top dollar to watch a FINAL.  Unfortunately governing bodies have also lost sight of what is considered competition and allowed this to continue. Walk off finals are all too common place in badminton.

    Come up with a different format and these super teams will find another way to "cheat" the system.  However atleast limit the carnage. What we just witnessed in this decision by the IOC is a condemnation of what has been accepted practice.

    For those players not associated with super teams and struggling financially and physically to play in tournaments, it is return to sensibility and fair play. This decision will put badminton under the microscope and on notice. If nothing is done, badminton will be relegated to a backyard sport with its golden years far removed.
     
  12. chibe_K

    chibe_K Regular Member

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    No doubt, BWF is the one to blame as its lack of action in the past to stop bad behaviors such as game fixing has now reached the tiping point. Hard to believe the players did that in such an open manner at Olympics!! But my take is they did that because they were under the impression it was an ok behavior since BWF had not done anything in the past to stop them. I also feel that the coaches need to take responsibilites as well. Find out how many times in the forum this subject was discussed in the past. Badminton lovers like us want the sports to be known for fair competition and honesty.
     
  13. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    Each venture gets bolder seeing there is no penalty imposed from fixing in SS, then WC, then OLY and BWF cannot do anything about it. This time, the paying fans cry foul and boo, Rogge in attendance, the media picks it up, IOC has to do something. I was driving to a meeting and over the radio, for the first time, badminton made the news and on this DQ fiasco. IOC really has no choice but to show who is boss with the world watching, doing nothing is a kiss of death, do something with the blessing of world's majority (except the Gang of 6 and counting), and to get BWF to deliver the punishment to the 3 nations (so it does not appear to be targeting CHN) is a win-win decision for IOC.
    CHN communist party last thing she wants is bad publicity and to lose face internationally, to be called 'cheater' and 'fixer' in a sport dominated by her, I wonder how this will unfold. Whose head will roll?
    LLW, with her past ugly encounter with LYB, dealt with this card, what would she do? This is the moment ...
     
  14. groovyshot

    groovyshot Regular Member

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    Chibe_k, you are so right on! This behavior is so systemic, that the players don't really know right from wrong, or are just going along for the 'ride'. BWF may be the weak link, but it kowtows to these National/Pro/Superteams which exert considerable influence on the governing body. Team China, cough, cough Li Ning will want things their way, because for them badminton is a business and selling rackets, clothing, etc to us is important.
    Now more than ever, Li Ning is interested in controlling the sport as their stock is dropping like crazy. Plus they have to duke it out with team Yonex and team Victor.
     
  15. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

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    IMHO, we should have another option in the poll:

    coaches/association

    Even to punish the players, it'd better to send voilation tickets/citations to the players, coaches and the associations. Each charged them $10,000. If anyone fails to pay the fine, then disqualify her.
     
  16. sen

    sen Regular Member

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    Thanks, Kwun for putting the poll. I would say that the blame is not just BWF, but the IOC as well. The reduced number of players qualified for Olympics and the increase number of matches that the players play.

    In a way, the round robin system
     
  17. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    you can't change the ballot paper half way thro!
    what do think BC is? Kangaroo court?

    actually i voted the third one, other to be blamed. i.e. coaches and their bosses, and their bosses' bosses.

    I don't blame the players at all. do you really think they have a choice at all if that was their coaches' order?
     
  18. Winex West Can

    Winex West Can Regular Member

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    I blame the tournament referee for not taking decisive action by disqualifying the pairs in the first match. This would have sent a strong message to the pairs in the second match and also set the tone for further events.
     
  19. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    I agree with you. Very few players actually have the balls and the courage of conviction to refuse such orders. Although, it has happened e.g. in table-tennis...

    But in 2cents' defence, it was just his opinion/suggestion! He didn't quite demand a change in the poll to elicit such a strong response from you... :p
     
  20. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    I voted for the last: both playes and BWF; but with the caveat: including coaches and NAs.
     

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