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Why +2lbs On The Cross?

Discussion in 'Badminton String' started by kwun, Apr 7, 2003.

  1. KinkySmasher

    KinkySmasher Regular Member

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    First post is a stringer saying you need to add at least 1 pound even with good support.

    Then another stringer said you don't need it with good support or else you're gonna warp your racket.

    Can't you stringers agree? :D
     
  2. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Ah well, it's similar to "Does higher tension give pro level players more power?"....no one agrees on it EVER :D
    Anyway, kwun has some valid points which I'd normally agree with - but I can't, because I've made the experience that any added tension on the crosses warps the racket.
    Perhaps I've got better support than kwun :p
     
  3. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    there are many variables and many assumptions.

    with my 6pt machine, i find main==cross, and then strung 2piece bottom up give the best result. no warp/deform, very good feel and repulsion.

    but many people swear by +2lbs but they strung differently and have different machines.

    this thread just attempt to explain the reasoning.

    in the end, it depends on the stringer. the most important part is to experiment.
     
  4. KinkySmasher

    KinkySmasher Regular Member

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    So it seems to me the best thing would be to ask the stringer "I want a tension of XX. Can you do it in a way that wouldn't warp the racket?" Am I right?
     
  5. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    agree. unless you think your stringer has no clue. then trust his skills and let him do his job.
     
  6. hesho

    hesho Regular Member

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    what if the stringer has no idea lol. I kinda just started stringing this summer and i've always done +1 on cross strings since that's what BK recommended on my stringing machine. So it's really based on the machine then if it should be even or not? Would +1 on cross even make that much of a difference?
     
  7. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    It's based on the machine, and 1lbs can make a difference. It's not so noticeable at lower tensions (up to 24-25lbs) because the racket's own resistance will still be strong at those tensions, but when you approach 30lbs, you should know your machine and how much to add or you'll warp (or in some bad cases even break) the racket.
     
  8. hesho

    hesho Regular Member

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    oh good god, the highest i'm stringing right now is 22lbs lol. I mainly got the stringing machine because the other guy that strings, his scale is insanely off. His 22lbs is looser then my 18lbs. What i do find interesting though, he says the looser the strings, the more power you get but you get less control while the tighter the strings, the less power you get but more control. I always thought this was the opposite? (tighter = more power, less control and loose = less power, more control)
     
  9. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Both statements aren't entirely correct, but his is more accurate. Although there is certainly a lower limit to the tension power-wise.
    Normally, you'll have a tension which feels just right. For most, that is the tension where they have most control while still being able to play with decent power. I like the feel of high tensions, but limit myself because I know I lose some power above 25lbs, and my usual 28lbs BG80/NBG98 is a compromise of the incredible control and feel of high tension (30-31lbs) and power of lower tension. When I had a 27lbs BG65 on my racket, I actually hit 80% out of court because I lost so much control.
     
  10. hesho

    hesho Regular Member

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    i'm under the impression that the cut off point is roughly at 23 or 24 lbs. After that, that's when the tighter it is, the less power there is. Could be just me though.
     
  11. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    I think that depends on the person - I'm sure Fu Haifeng would complain loudly about anything below 30 lbs :D Also, feeling and fact are not always the same - so I could lose power abouve 23 for all I know. 25 feels much more powerful though, and 28 just feels BETTER. Clears do actually feel a lot easier at 26/27 than at 25, and roughly the same at 28. Drop shots are like 60% more accurate though :D (~15-30cm divergence w/o pressure rather than ~50) As a defensive, accuracy-based player (in singles), that's worth the 15-20% power I sacrifice. My smash isn't impressive either way.
     
  12. RacketStringer

    RacketStringer Regular Member

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    I am a regular player and a recently qualified racket stringer. I have heard this argument before but having tried it with my own rackets I cannot say that stringing the crosses at 2lbs higher than the mains has any real benefit in the way the racket performs. So in the example above I would either string both mains and crosses at 20lbs or both at 21lbs or both at 22lbs. Yes, the mains will move slightly in play but they will even if the crosses are tensioned higher. Stringing the mains at 20lbs and the crosses at 22lbs to get an average result of 21lbs? - there is no noticeable benefit by doing this compared to stringing both mains and crosses at 21lbs.
     
  13. Dekkert

    Dekkert Regular Member

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    I think the explanation from Kwun sounds very plausible. I don't know why, but it just sounds correct. I think it still applies for machines with very good supports.
    I myself have a Pro's Pro Pioneer, 6 pt drop weight machine. Don't know if it is known as a good or bad machine. Anyone of you have heard about it? I just never had problems with it. Unlike J4ckie, I don't experience any warping when stringing 2+ on crosses. I always string 2+. Never tried M=C though.
    I string my own rackets at 29/31 pounds. I twice strung a friends racket (YY AS10) at 36/38 (although with Dinks method of first 4 crosses at 36, next 5 crosses at 37, and the rest at 38) and the racket still kept its shape. Maybe 1 or 2 mm off, could be. I also always do the last mains and last cross on 2+.
     
  14. FightFalcon

    FightFalcon Regular Member

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    If this is so, do I have to specify to the stringer that I want +2lbs on the cross. Or do they already take that into consideration?
     
  15. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    This Panda thinks he's mentioned the below before but will say it again:

    1) Adding additional tension on the cross is not always necessary. It depends on the stringing machine and stringer (to know whether or not the increase is needed).

    2) A machine with good side supports will not need any adjustments; meaning main = cross; 30 x 30lbs.
    It's only the machines with lesser side supports that need the increase in the crosses.

    So how do you or your stringer know if an increase is needed? Trial and error.
    a) If the machine is unknown, you string a racket the way you normally do; in this Panda's instance M=C, 30 x 30.
    b) If the racket shape comes out the same or nearly the same (with 1mm) of the original unstrung shape, you're good.
    c) If the racket shape comes out a bit round (and will be shorter in overall length), you know you need to increase the cross tension.
    d) How much to increase it again depends, but a good rule of thumb is 10%. So now Panda would try 29 x 31 and see the results.
    e) Then fine tune from there, if necessary.

    A prime example of side support madness:

    Panda purchased an Eagnas Combo 910.

    1) With the stock side supports, Panda would have to string at 29 x 33 to get the correct shape (4lbs. difference)
    2) With the upgraded SP Tennis Side Supports strung at 30 x 32 (2lbs. difference)
    3) With the upgraded SP Tennis and poly tubing, 30.5 x 31.5 (1lb. difference)
    3) With the final upgrade, Michal Chudek Side Supports, 31 x 31 (main = cross)

    Not all stringers are going to know this info. The ones that do, that have experience, they know right away. The ones that don't, they simply do not and explaining to them can be difficult.

    One last note: stringing machines and stringing methods may differ too.

    At this year's 2011 U.S. Open, Panda was stringing with the ES5Pro and ES5ProTech. On these machines, you're supposed to mount the racket very high on the side supports, on the 5th cross string from the top between A10 and A11. Stringing 30 x 30, the rackets came out perfect...

    ...on Panda's machine, the top supports are about 1/4" below the 6th cross...

    ...Panda tried the Yonex way on his machine and the racket came out very round.

    The key is to get a stringer who knows his machine and you should be OK.

    Final Note: 24lbs. tension and below, cross/main ratio is not too significant. 25-28lbs. significant. 29+lbs. it becomes very significant.
     
  16. FightFalcon

    FightFalcon Regular Member

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    Thanks for the very detailed reply, appreciate that you took the time to write it. Now I know a lot more :)
     
  17. kevindd992002

    kevindd992002 Regular Member

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    My local sports shop has a tecnifibre digital stringing machine, not sure of the model though. Is this a good brand with stock side supports that wouldn't need additional tension on the cross? I'm not sure if the stringers there really are good in stringing but they have this certification seal posted in their store.
     
  18. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    Neither would anyone of us here who have not been to your local sports shop know.

    The only way to know is to find out yourself. Give them your racquet and see what they can do. "Trial and error".

    Does that make sense to you now?
     
  19. asmd6230

    asmd6230 Regular Member

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    thanks for taking the time to write this reply.
    much appreciated.
     
  20. kevindd992002

    kevindd992002 Regular Member

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    Ok, ok. I'm just asking, really. Relax.
     

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