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Why +2lbs On The Cross?

Discussion in 'Badminton String' started by kwun, Apr 7, 2003.

  1. dunmaster

    dunmaster Regular Member

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    maybe we should also do a poll among stringers, and see what's the difference between cross and main.

    for me, a stringer who have used patterns from Yonex and Gosen/Horibito, I always add ~2lbs for crosses, and never had any issues.

    I did try same tension for both main and cross, but most of the rackets came out round.

    therefore, I always recommend adding ~2lbs for crosses to start, either for trial or whatever.
     
    #301 dunmaster, Dec 23, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2011
  2. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    No, you should not always recommend adding 2lbs.; it depends on the machine. If it's a machine with excellent side supports such as the ES5Pro/ProTech or similar, you won't need the extra tension on the cross.

    If the machine is one with lesser side supports then I would suggest +2lbs. on the cross.

    Again, it depends on the machine. If it's your machine or one you are familiar with, you will know what to do, no problem. If you are not familiar with the machine, ask someone who knows. It will save you a string job or two.
     
  3. dunmaster

    dunmaster Regular Member

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    well, i don't have that expensive set-up, and hence the recommendation of +2lbs.
     
  4. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    Well, that recommendation applies for your machine. You have to understand that not everyone has the same machine as you, thus why recommend "Always add 2lbs, [no matter what case]"?

    For instance with my usual string jobs on a relatively cheap portable 6-point machine at 32 to 33lbs, I am able to do uniform tension with no additional tension to the cross and am still able to get the racquet frame to retain the original shape. Stringer technique plus experience with machines are still more important than the universal recommendation of +2lbs.
     
  5. dunmaster

    dunmaster Regular Member

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    why not? have you tried +2lbs and see what happens to the racket AND tension? you maybe surprised.

    one experiment made me to ALWAYS recommend +2lbs is following:

    - strung three identical rackets. First one with 26x28, second one with 28x28, and last one with 26x26.
    - used the same string (from the same spool) and same stringing pattern. of course, same machine (cheap 6-point portable with manual crank), same stringer (me) and same technique (I hope). Started with empty racket on the machine, and finished each one of them using around the same amount of time (~30 minutes each).
    - Then, I checked the pitch on them to see how tension may be like (remember saw it somewhere that this has been accepted as one easy way to tell the tension, and I think I have very good tuned ears from violin and piano).
    - the finding: 26x28 has the same pitch as that of 28x28, and 26x26 is definitely much lower pitch. this remains the same after the rackets have been on the shelf for a period of several days.
    - PLUS: the tested racket were very slightly "fatter" on 28x28 or 26x26 against original shape.

    Conclusion: I'd rather to stay with LOWER tension combination and get the same pitch (tension???) at the end.

    this is also the base for my "ALWAYS" recommendation for +~2 lbs.

    PS: please don't ask me why about the pitch and tension since I couldn't justify the reason from physics I know of. maybe my ears are not that tuned at all, which is why I am not a musician:p!

    I am not trying to argue your finding, but to express my experience, and things I have heard from other stringers. Maybe it's good for someone to do a research project on this topics.

    Again, a poll about this topic may help as well.
     
  6. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    I do not understand your logic of having to string three racquets (all of the same model and make) at your suggested tensions then comparing them side by side, while what I have done myself is to just string one at my usual uniform tension (for example 32x32lbs) then compare the strung racquet with the unstrung racquet. What I will do next is to use a measuring tape and measure the longest vertical and horizontal lengths on the racquet frame, plus some more specific points such as 10 and 2 o'clock.

    What I have noticed is that with my technique and machine, I am able to get the shape of the strung racquet to be exactly the same dimensions (or measurements) as the unstrung racquet. I have also done racquets in the past at 31x32lbs (to get the overall of 32lbs) and even though the pitch is almost the same as you pointed out (albeit very slightly lower), the overall hitting feel is actually slightly stiffer for the uniform tension job. The string tension on the uniform tension job also lasts slightly longer especially with the thicker strings that I usually use. And that is the way I like my racquets strung :p
     
  7. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    If you say add 2lbs. to the cross is your recommendation regardless of the machine, then on an ES5Pro or Panda's set-up, or for that matter, just about every machine that has the Chudek side supports (assuming good side arms), the rackets will come out narrow.
     
  8. dunmaster

    dunmaster Regular Member

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    my logic to test for this +2lbs concept myself. the ending measure are the racket's shape and tension obtained.

    there are way too many debate about this same topic across the globe, and I wanted to share my experience here.
     
  9. dunmaster

    dunmaster Regular Member

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    have you tried +2lbs anyway?

    that could be the case with your set-up and your technique. This is a more than set-up topic, since it must also be related to rackets, hole patterns, etc.

    Anyway, I am here to share my experience with people. It's important to make sure all kinds of voices are heard by people, as we are doing over the last couple of days.:D

    mmm, Christmas wish.... someone to spend his / her life to do a research about this!

    Merry Christmas, all!
     
  10. asmd6230

    asmd6230 Regular Member

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    my 2 cents... using a shuttle express 6 point machine, i frequently string at 27 - 29 pounds and always keep the crosses and the mains the same, i dont get any frame deformity.

    eg.

    DSCF0021.jpg

    Zymax 67 @ 27x27 pounds. The shape frame is exactly like its unstrung outline.
    Point being, secure the racket frame into the 6 point mounting correctly and the mount should prevent any frame deformity during stringing.

    Regards,
    asmd.
     
  11. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    Sir, you must not know this Panda very well. Panda has tried just about all techniques and methods and used over 10 different stringing machines with 15 different supports.

    If Panda used 29/31 on his machine, the racket would come out long. In fact, ideally, on Panda's machine it should be 31/30 to get as close to the original shape as possible.

    Conclusion:

    If you were to use Panda's stringing machine with your technique (29/31), your racket would come out long.

    If Panda were to use your stringing machine with an even string tension (30/30), Panda's racket would come out round.
    On your machine Panda would need to use the 2lbs. difference.

    Panda advocates whatever method is necessary to get as close to the original shape of the racket as possible. And that is stringing machine dependent (due to the type of side supports and shoulder arms).
     
  12. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    While this is true on your machine, you guys keep missing a point this Panda is trying to make; that's your method on your machine, not necessarily for all machines. Mounting the racket perfectly doesn't necessarily mean the racket will come out right just using one universal method for all machines.

    Example, Panda's stringing machine set-up: Combo 910 + WISE Tennishead 2086

    For a 30lbs. string job...

    ...originally with stock side supports and side arms: would need to go 28.5/31.5 to get the right shape (3lbs. difference)

    ...upgraded to the SPTennis badminton side supports: now need to go 29.5/30.5 to get the right shape (1lbs. difference)

    ...finally upgraded to the Chudek side supports + strengthened the side arms: now go 30/30 to get the right shape (0lbs. difference)

    Quite a few people have strung on Panda's machine and some had done the +2lbs. because they are used to it on their machine or other machines. When the racket is done, it's too long...

    ...again, conclusion: every machine is different and may need a different method of stringing to get the correct racket shape. If you have your method working well on your machine, GREAT! But it doesn't mean it's going to work on all machines.

    Whenever Panda strings a on new machine, Panda will ask whoever is an expert on that machine what they do and then Panda follows their recommendation first. Once the racket is strung, then Panda will know for sure. ;)
     
  13. asmd6230

    asmd6230 Regular Member

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    Agree.LI too too several tries to come about to my own conclusion as to qhat worked best on my machine. Initially I did add 2 pounds to the cross and the racket didn't quite look right. I stencilled many outlines and compared them to the strung racket after I was done to confirm.
     
  14. hesho

    hesho Regular Member

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    am i weird in that i do 1 pound only? I noticed there is a slight circle when i was stringing and so i did a 2 pounds cross but then it looked kinda long so i did an outline and compared different racquets after stringing. i find that doing 1 pound is just right for me anyway *shrugs.

    maybe its' because i'm only stringing at 19/20 or 22/23 pounds *shrugs.
     
  15. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    No, you are not weird, in fact you are spot on. You do whatever it takes, on your machine, to get the correct frame shape. And in your case, it's a 1lb. difference.

    Kudos! :)
     
  16. gavias

    gavias Regular Member

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    If the machine is this one, what should be done?

    CHALLENGER_I_4a02e29a474de_240x240.jpg
     
  17. asmd6230

    asmd6230 Regular Member

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    Trial and error, start with mains=cross and check frame shape. if frame shape is maintained, you're all good. If not, adjust poundage to the cross strings accordingly until there is no frame distortion.
     
  18. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    Based on that specific machine with no modifications to the side supports nor arms, Panda would say try a 2lbs. difference first.

     
  19. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    and that's exactly the reason why i don't usually use other people's machine even though i have access to top end machines like ES5Protech and Victor 7030's. my string job would come out differently, not only the shape of the racket but also the final feel (which is ultimately affected by the shape + tension). i have experimented on my own machine and have found the optimal flow that produces the best result, and that includes both the mounting, tension selection, as well as the technique and rate that i tension each string.
     
  20. gavias

    gavias Regular Member

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    DinkAlot, I want to ask you a question about a little different question.


    Considering your experience, do you think that in a crank machine the loss of tension, because of the lack of constant pulling, justifies the use of a drop weight machine, that its slower and more difficult to operate?
     
    #320 gavias, Dec 31, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011

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