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Why +2lbs On The Cross?

Discussion in 'Badminton String' started by kwun, Apr 7, 2003.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    experimenting with string tension ratio is what all stringer should go through. the problem is that the combination is endless and there are many variables..

    my latest experiment shows that the perfect combo is if M=C tension, bottom up, fixed clamp on main and flying clamp on cross.

    yes, that's a weird one. but for some reason, if i use fixed clamp on cross, the feeling is less lively. no variation of tension on the cross manage to recover the same feeling.

    go figure.
     
  2. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    one more point.

    there is no rule that says having the same final effective tension betweeen main and cross plays better

    and also there is no rule that says retaining the same racket shape plays better.

    if you have a flow that give the best playability/feel without satisfying the above, then go for it.

    it is up to you to be a measurebator, try to get the tension and racket length down to the 0.1lbs and 0.1mm; or try to be practical and get the string job that give the best feel on court.

    i am the latter.
     
  3. blableblibloblu

    blableblibloblu Regular Member

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    Did you try doing +2lbs on middle strings with 4 knots?
     
  4. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    i did that with just the cross strings (victor tension pattern). still not as good.
     
  5. blableblibloblu

    blableblibloblu Regular Member

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    ya I meant middle cross** strings

    interesting. I'll be getting my MX80 in a week and a half tops but I can't seem to find the motivation to try stringing with 1 piece.
     
  6. silentheart

    silentheart Regular Member

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    OK, Here is my take on this.
    1) to get the even tension for for main vs cross, 5~10% depend on the string thickness and repulsion of the string. thinner string will need less tension increase on cross (5~7%) vs standard BG65 is about 8~10%. stiffer/harder feeling string need more on cross than softer string. this will cover most of the posts earlier. while we are at it, did you realize the top 5 strings have less intersects than the middle where the sweet spot is? so in theory, you need not increase as much for cross. but the string length for the top 5 are much shorter than others, do you need any up or down to compensate for that?
    2) this exercise is to string up a racquet so the frame will have similar force inward when finish. the truth is, people likes different combo. some like it main=cross and some like it cross with 5% higher and some plays best with cross with 10% higher.
    really, my head hurts at this point after so many theories floating around.
    there is no set rule on what is the "best" for everyone. if you are or asking your stringer to tweek the string at that level, you are either a) a pro with sponsorship, b) too much money or time in your hand.
    just like a normal curve, if you have a formula that can cover 75% of users, stay with it. let the 12.5% other find whatever they like and the other 12.5% stay clueless.
     
  7. Zynex

    Zynex Regular Member

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    There seem to be a thing that has been missed in this thread (although I did not read every post).

    I agree with the 1-2lb higher tension on the crosses, because:
    - a 100% even stringbed is extremely important. To clarify: imagine a stringbed with the mains on 28lb, and the crosses just hanging loose... it won't give a good repulsion. The more equal, the better
    - The mains are put onto a certain tension, but AFTERWARDS when tightening the crosses, are tensioned higher because of the pressure the crosses give. As I understand it, this is the reason to raise the tension on the crosses, to equal out this difference.

    HOWEVER...
    One factor has not been taken into account...
    A racket is very flexible. IF the mains have a different tension then the crosses... the racket will compensate with its flexibility, equalling... equal tension again.
    So unless you do some crazy differences in tension, you will always have an equal tension in a stringbed?
     
  8. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    i don't agree that racket is very flexible.

    afterall, we don't really see it deform that much. only a few mm at most.
     
  9. Zynex

    Zynex Regular Member

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    a few mm is all it takes to lessen the tension differences.
     
  10. crawshaws

    crawshaws Regular Member

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    A carbon composite head is around 30 times stiffer IN HOOP than the nylon string, so it's hoop compression will be negligible, however, it is highly flexible in the radial sense. The head doesn't shrink under tension but it will deform as it maintains its hoop length.
    I agree with Zynex on this one: Once the racquet leaves the stringing machine head braces, it will tend to even out asymetric tension by deforming the head. If there's higher final tension on the crosses, the racquet will narrow and lengthen resulting in slightly less tension in the crosses and slightly more in the mains.
    As always, string to your own preference, but you shouldn't assume that adding tension to either mains or crosses will result in a proportional effect on final tension.
     
  11. quezac

    quezac Regular Member

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    I have(had) a razor v1.0. Factory string tension 10kg, does this mean it is strung at 10kg on the vertial and horizontal? From what been explained on this thread the vertical is strung with a lower tension. If this is the case does the 10kg represent the tension of the cross stringing?
    I ask as when I had the racket restrung I think ! may have cocked up, I used yonex bg80, which recomends 5-10% lower tension, and not wantiong to increase tension I went for 9kg on the cross strings and only 8.25 for the verticals. I go for lower tensions as I have cronic problems with tennis elbow.
    It played great a couple of times intil I had a collision and it imploded (will be geting another razor v1.0 as I absolutely love it). I have now read on a site selling this racket that they will not string the racket at less than 9.5kg as the racket will not take lower tensions. The minimum rated tension marked on the racket is 10kg.
    I've allways found bg80 to work well for me but clearly if the racket can't be strung at a low tension I'll need to change string.
    So the question is, knowing that I like to play with low tensions, have previously used bg80, my game is attacking so i like good "repulsion", and have a racket that does not like low string tension what string to use and at what tension on the vertial and horizontal?
    If sugestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks,
    Mark
     
    #351 quezac, Nov 17, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  12. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Well a string tension of 10kg will not give anyone tennis elbow. It's really the softest I would go, any softer doesn't make sense. No offense, but stringing with 8-9kg, your game can't be that attacking. 10kg is still very very soft and won't decrease your power, if you're worried about that.
    I'd never go below 10 on the Razor - iirc, those have that weird grommet-less system where the string runs on the outside of the racket, right? I'd be afraid of it coming loose at those low tensions :D
    Anyhow, don't be afraid of using 10kg, and if you have a decent machine, 10-10.5kg on the crosses should be enough.

    (PS: there's no 'minimum tension' for any racket. It all depends on skill level and preference, and the only limit to tensions is what the racket can actually take. As lower tensions put less strain on the racket, there is no limit in that direction ;) But playability sure suffers from a certain point on -both control and power- and vibration can actually increase if the tension is too low.)
     
  13. quezac

    quezac Regular Member

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    Thanks for your repl j4ckie. The reasons that I went for the very low tension was that I was happy with the factory tension, 10kg, but with the change to bg80 which states on the packet to use 5-10% less tension and then assuming that 10kg actually means start the verticals at 9ish and finish at 10 (which is why I wanted confirmation of what a tension of 10kg actually means). Anyway thic arrives at about 8.1->8.5 verticals and 9->9.5 horizontal.
    As for the tennis elbow, it's a near permanent problem that I've had for over 5 years and with a low tension I find I can still generate plenty of power with wrist and a bit of shoulder, it is not caused by the vibration buy years of exstreme elbow/arm stress.
    Where I live the only shops for restrings know very little about re-stringing (even less than me and that's saying something!) and if you ask for 10kg will start at 10kg and finish at 10kg, which having read some of this thread is not the best way to do it.
    Thanks for any advice.
    Mark
     
    #353 quezac, Nov 17, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  14. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Well it's very hard to say what the best process on your machine is if you have no skilled player to test out different approaches...usually, a good approach is same tension everywhere or 0.5kg more on the crosses. Both will yield playable results on any machine, and with tensions below 11.5-12kg, there should be little to no noticeable difference.
     
  15. kakinami

    kakinami Regular Member

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    The UK Stringers went back to 2pounds. 30 tension they do 29/31
     
  16. michael23

    michael23 Regular Member

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    Sorry if this has already been asked, but it's kinda hard searching through 21 pages of this thread.

    Question: If my racquet has maximum recommend tension of 27lb and I want to string it at this maximum tension, then will the cross be strung at 29lb? Or will the cross need to be strung at 27lb and the mains at 25lb?
     
  17. Wingu

    Wingu Regular Member

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    In Sweden we have to specify if we want the cross to have more tension. If I go to a stringer and say 24lbs, he would make it 24x24. I always do +2 on cross and get my coach to do it for me so he knows what I want. But if you're going to a local store, you might want to specify.

    As for how much you can string it at, rackets can handle higher tension than recommended, but if your racket should by chance break, you won't be able to claim warranty. Yonex rackets only specify recommendations generally, while Victor has seperate recommendation for mains and crosses (they have +2lbs recommendation on their cross).

    If you ask me and you have a Yonex racket and are afraid of void warranty, I wouldn't string it higher than the recommended tension for both main and cross. So if you have recommended up to 27, that would mean 25x27 if you want higher tension on your cross.
     
  18. phaaam

    phaaam Regular Member

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    I wonder how Yonex even addresses warranty issues. What kind of proof do they want if a racket snaps during stringing below max tension? (Assuming fairly new racket of course).

    As for me, I've been doing doing 2-piece stringing but recently 1-piece. I can cut down from 30ft to 29ft of string. I also feel more confident that the tension is holding better.

    As for crosses, I tend to do +2lbs. because I have a 2-point mount. I feel that +2-3lbs. on crosses will help with maintaining the shape, which is for aesthetic purposes. At 25lbs.+ for mains, I do about 2.5-3lbs. for crosses, so the 10% increase. So if I wanted 26lbs. I would string it at ~25x27.5. I should technically drop the mains cross a little bit to 24.75x27.25 but it really depends if I want to bother.
     
  19. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    hard to say for during stringing. for racket that has been strung, Yonex USA have been requesting shops not to cut the string so they can examine the string job to determine if the warranty would be granted. Yonex has been tightening up the process a lot lately. i have a feeling that they might be losing a lot of money from giving out too many warranty replacement.
     
  20. Shinichi

    Shinichi Regular Member

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    haha..premium price and now a lot of warranty replacement
     

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