Thanks for visiting us!

Badminton Central is a free community for fans of badminton! If you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community users, it takes less than 15 seconds! Everybody is welcome here.

Click here for a FREE account!

Why serve so high to the back in singles?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by BernieR, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. BernieR

    BernieR Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    house
    I play more doubles than singles. I was playing singles with a better player the other day and he suggested I should try long serves, hitting high to the back of the court. This was very effective when my serve was long enough.

    What I'm wondering though is, why do we serve high? I noticed that players like my new heroine Intanon Ratchanok do serve very high. But this height gives the opponent all the time in the world to get back to play the shot. Why don't players serve just high enough so that the opponent can't reach the serve in midcourt, so that it arrives at the back much more quickly and gives them less time to get into position?
     
  2. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    surabaya, indonesia
    That's suicide in singles unless u catch them off guard (not expecting a high serve) so they can deal with the serve effectively.

    One of the reasons for high serves is when a shuttlecock falls almost perpendicularly to the floor it cannot be smashed as hard/powerfully and as accurate as a shuttle falling at a smaller angle. This is because the racket surface will impact the feathers 1st instead of the head. The smash impact has to be facing downward a bit, ie you have to impact yr smash in front of your shoulder, so u'll never be able to impact the head of the shuttlecock 1st on smashing it.
     
  3. Deity

    Deity Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    sauga
    if you serve it up mid court, the opponent will give you a steep smash that's gonna be hard to return. Firstly, when u serve at the back, you make the opponent move, this gives you somewhat of an advantage. Secondly, when they hit the shuttle, either a clear or smash or even drop, you are already in position while they are still about to go to their ready position. Thirdly, not everyone is comfortable hitting from back of the court, especially in singles. Chances are, they will fail and/or you will have the advantage. I hope this helped o.o
     
  4. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,125
    Likes Received:
    19
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    USA
    The one you described sounds like a drive serve. This is comparable to a low attacking lift in a rally. Since your opponent is at his base, there's hardly any movement pressure. By nature of this serve which is flat, the shuttle must start to fall earlier, meaning your opponent would be able to intercept it earlier (compared to the other high serve I'm about to describe). The angle of the shot to opponent is also good, as described previously by other.

    Now the very high serve. Imagine a playing hall with a very high ceiling (a few stories high), and the high serve takes advantage of this, you could put at least one of your opponent's feet behind the very back line (the Singles service line) in order to take the shuttle in front of the body. The shuttle can go that deep because of the shot's peculiar trajectory you would see in textbooks (compared to the flat drive serves). Think of how far away this could be from the net. All attacking shots from this deep position would become slower and flatter. This is in addition to the other properties explained. Plus, if you have played in a hall with a very high ceiling before, you'd know you could easily lose the shuttle in the background (i.e. the ceiling), because there's now hardly any contrast (between the white shuttle and the ceiling). This observation, along with the fact that the shuttle would likely be dropping with a vertical velocity faster than you may normally encounter, could mean it's hardly to time the hitting properly. There's no movement pressure, but there're all these factors described that translates to troubles for the receiver.

    Proper use of such high serves could immediately cause troubles to your opponents who're not trained to receive this kind of serves. Top players (esp. women) like Zhang Ning, Tai Tzu Ying, Ratchanok, Wang Shixian, A. Yamaguchi, all use mainly high serves. Also notice how some of them step forward so much closer to the Doubles service line in order to concentrate all their power into the height of the serve.
     
  5. BernieR

    BernieR Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    house
    Great responses, thanks everyone, I have learned a lot.
     
  6. jencon13

    jencon13 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    australia
    Its been said well already, but yes the man is correct. Serve high = shuttle falls down straight, = cant hit on good angle = pain in the ass to return. I really hate playing players who properly know how to do this serve. Lucky for me, people these days are lazy and opt for the short serve LOL :)
     
  7. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    surabaya, indonesia
    Sorry but what is exactly a drive serve?
    IMHO a drive is illegal as a serve because point of impact will be above yr waist, too high.
     
  8. Exert

    Exert Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,079
    Likes Received:
    8
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Canada
    Drive serve, isn't that when you basically backhand serve and flick your wrist really fast in order for it to go fast above or at the opponent ?
     
  9. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,125
    Likes Received:
    19
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    USA
    So, you don't know what a drive serve is? :confused::rolleyes:
    Don't worry, check out this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6chDR28aa7g

    It's said to be an advanced technique, so not everyone would know...:D
    What's disappointing with the video is that it demonstrates only backhand, not the forehand I was thinking about...

    Or if you don't like the video (too fast), you could read up on BadmintonBible:
    http://www.badmintonbible.com/articles/serving-guide/badminton-serve-types.php
    :D:cool::p;)
     
  10. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,125
    Likes Received:
    19
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    USA
  11. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    surabaya, indonesia
    If that is a drive serve, then I am not interested because a) most of it is ILLEGAL, b)most of my opponents are better than beginners. As I said that type of serve will only work once or twice against better players. Also, an indication that the serve is useless against better players is that we don't see ANY of such serve in International matches, ie Pros DO NOT use them. The pros only use 2 types of serves in doubles, a low serve or a flick serve.

    Even some older/slower players still occasionally use high serves in doubles, esp. against opponents who don't really have thundering smashes or against opponents who are really good at 'pushing' or rushing low serves.
     
  12. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    16,326
    Likes Received:
    49
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Irrc, the 1997 world doubles championship final point was won with a drive serve.
     
  13. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    surabaya, indonesia
    Are u sure? Is this the one, Candra Wijaya/Sigit Budiarto vs Cheah Soon Keat/Yap Kim Hock match, Sigit serving @27.24?
    That is just a regular low serve.:confused:
     
  14. Avenger

    Avenger Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    from Indonesia, now in China
    if you can serve high at the back and deep enough, it will be a good serve. however it is not advisable against better player as they can move back really really fast and then smash it

    against intermediate level player, I always do it, it makes them out of position and then when they return it (either with clear or drop) I will just gonna do drop or net shot. making them moving from very back to very front. it works.. until your opponent foot work is good enough to cover the whole court, then it is not really effective

    combine it with forehand low serve and it is actually quite ok. again, up to certain level of player since I played against good singles player before and they can do whatever they want to the shuttle..
     
  15. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,125
    Likes Received:
    19
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    USA
    Not disagreeing with you on the drive serve. But I believe that's what the OP described. If you're talking about Doubles, flick and low serves are the only ones they use, that I agree. If you're talking about Singles, you should pay some attention to Women Singles.
     
  16. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,125
    Likes Received:
    19
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    USA
    Saying that "it is quite ok", I think, is an understatement. Have a look at 2001 All England semi-final:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A12aj8K-deU

    Peter Gade used a lot of very high serves. For the most part, GopiChand can only attempt to neutralize the serves with clears. To talk about speed in moving back and smash, then I guess we're not talking about the same high serves. As discussed, you don't really need to move particularly fast as it'd take a relatively long while for the shuttle to drop to hittable level. And a smash really is not advisable - it'll be slowed down, and it'd have to be flatter, while the server, presumably at about same level as the receiver, would be waiting patiently and ready to make you run the full diagonal.

    The change in style to predominately low/flick based is interesting. It may have to do with its versatility - it doesn't require a very high ceiling, and thus it's very portable (not all gyms have that high ceilings, esp. at local tournaments). I'd like to hear others' views as to why high serves (I mean the really high ones) are not used more often.
     
  17. sautom88

    sautom88 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    surabaya, indonesia
    Because the modern singles games are much more agressive so they do not want the receivers to gain the initiative to attack. When one hits the shuttlecock above the net line, that is considered as an attacking shot(or have a potential to attack). By serving low the receiver has less choices of return shots and the server will have the option to attack any of that reply shots.;)
     
  18. ein_roboter

    ein_roboter Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    17
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I see ladies performing this service more often than the guys. Other notable female players with a tremendous high service are Eriko Hirose and Ratchanok's team mate Busanan Ongbumrungpan. Indeed it can be quite tricky how to response on such a service.
     
  19. Avenger

    Avenger Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    from Indonesia, now in China
    I don't think Peter Gade use the high serve anymore right?
    I think there is a shift somewhere. either footwork (better faster footwork) or because of the new scoring system (less focus on stamina and focus more on speed and burst of power. and less focus on tiring your opponent).
    if none of top class players (in these recent years) use it, then there must be a fatal flaw in it.
    such as sautom88 said, one of them might be because low serve limits the selection of the shots.

    high serve:
    smash, drop, clear. all of these can be disguised one and another since the movement is almost the same (drop disguised as a smash, or smash as a clear)
    and plus returning each of them requires different preparation such as:
    smash: in the returning position / middle
    drop: move to the front
    clear: move to the back

    low serve:
    net shot / lift (it can be disguised, but look at the point below)
    netshot: move to the front
    lift: move to the back
    less variation on where to move (plus less chance the opponent can kill with smash)

    and the main point is that opponent cannot do an attacking shot at all. it will gives the server advantage which they can attack in case their opponent lift

    don't forget Susi Susanti :)
    her serve preparation looks very elegant (I think new players also copy it)

    I think it is more because of female posture
    on average, women (esp asian) are not as tall as men. meaning their legs are not as long as men and cannot move as far as (and as long as) men. it will be harder for them to move back really fast and receive the high serve
    plus their power might be lacking (resulting in less power in smash).
     
    #19 Avenger, Jan 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  20. faaiz

    faaiz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2009
    Messages:
    572
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    assistant manager
    Location:
    Malaysia
    yeah..same principle also at double..when u lift high enough at the base line it will be difficult to smash when shuttle come down very straight..have to jump smash to reach at point when shuttle are not very straight...but for women double who are not jump smash they will control the angle of smash even shuttle come down straight
     

Share This Page