Thanks for visiting us!

Badminton Central is a free community for fans of badminton! If you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community users, it takes less than 15 seconds! Everybody is welcome here.

Click here for a FREE account!

Would you do it? --> Throw a match to win?

Discussion in 'Olympics LONDON 2012' started by Capnx, Aug 1, 2012.

  1. sjoe

    sjoe Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2002
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    n/a
    Do you believe that there is only one solution in any given situation. Thus your income and livelihood will never depends on one thing.
    First we have to have principles and believe that there is always another way. This way we can avoid us from troubles and being manipulated by someone.
     
  2. kinetics

    kinetics Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver

    But what is the other way?

    What would your solution be as a player if you want to continue playing badminton?
     
  3. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,180
    Likes Received:
    14
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    In theory, there might be other ways. However, when both want to lose (do not laugh, it's even harder than both want to win), you have to react fast. Otherwise, after a min a so, you will be "up" (funny right) by 5 points, and you can never "lose" again.

    I feel for the players, as they are caught in surprise as the other team is trying even harder. They are good players, but might not be the best strategies in the world. Under a lot of pressure (from coach, from crowd, from opponents, etc), it's hard to think fast, and get a win-win situation. Yes, it's that hard to out-lose your opponents.
     
  4. badelbow

    badelbow Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I would not.....
    For what had happened, the players thrown their match to Win - for their country...this is the Olympic(not a circuit tournament)....
    they win for their country FIRST and then, they win for yourself and all the benefits that come with it.

    How to throw the game......this is how they should have done...
    YY and WX (or any other pairs) should have a plan...during one of the rallies....have an accident.... try to reach the bird together and crushed with each other and make you one of the player fell and do not get up....then you retire the match...done.....
    or keep on playing while limping badly until the umpire ask them whether they would like to retire the game.
    This will save all the
    embarrassments that we are watching in the news medias so far.


     
  5. mickoz

    mickoz Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Software Developper
    Location:
    Canada
    It is funny how you guys says you will "act" different if you were losing intentionally. Why being more hypocrite or a better liar would make it more right or even show more respect to the people watching the game? ;-) If they did not act well, either they are poor actor, or they are just not hypocrite enough. Personally, if someone is lying to me, if they do more effort to make it real, I am not anymore happy of the lie. I have not saw the game and I am late into all this story... but then you have to be rational when you judge if it is correct or not.


    If you do not like it, it does not mean they did something bad. It means... you don't like it.


    People might not like people who laugh at their opponent or are arrogant... some will like. But if you do not like it, that does not mean the person should get their victory removed.


    This scandal, at higher level, is similar to losing a point where you want to remove stamina from your opponent and get 2 easy points after.


    Mohammad Ali's "Rope-a-dope" anyone?


    Except that now it is losing a match instead of a point. Same thing, at higher level. Really. In the end, you have to beat the teams if you want to win the tournament.


    Some people will work hard daily even when they are exhausted, some other will rest when it is the good time to rest, and achieve higher result in the end... maybe they are just being more smart (or not a morning person like Taufik...). ;-)


    I can agree that where there is money involved (or any other external reward), that would be cheating the people putting money on the game, etc. However, proving rationally that a team wanted to lose, how you do that? (even if you know it)


    And then if they lost strategically, I think that is defendable.


    My point is, you can think of putting this as a rule, but I don't know if it is a good rule to put. Where is the limit?


    Some sport teams used to lose (e.g. in hockey), to get the number 1 draft pick at the end of the season. They changed the draft rule to avoid a bit more this behavior.


    What would have happened to these "bad" players if they just explicitly declared "forfeit" (e.g. we are injured, we won't play the game to not end our tournament). Would they've been disqualified for the rest of the tournament? I guess not.


    So, all I know, is they did it strategically believing it will be better for their end result. And as any strategy it can works or not. At first glance, I am not comfortable with their disqualification.
     
  6. mcdogoo

    mcdogoo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    uk
    Now, "Throw a match to win" takes on a new meaning.
    China emerges as the biggest winner after throwing "that" match.

    Maybe Li Yongbo looked in the new format and gave a good thought, went through his game theory, blah blah and decided that I could take you all on. The rest was history…… mmm... huh...
     
  7. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    39
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    USA
    Not sure if this would actually work. If you "retire", I think you're out of the entire tournament. This would have defeated the purpose.
     
  8. HiddenPower

    HiddenPower Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NY, USA
    hummm, I did throw a mtach 1 time, and I refused to throw a match at a different tournament, both time I lost in the next 2 rounds. Fair game I say.
     
  9. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    39
    Occupation:
    Top Secret
    Location:
    USA
    Have you not watched any demonstration games/matches so far? They're for entertainment, and are not real, but a lot of people would still enjoy watching them.
     
  10. badelbow

    badelbow Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Yeah...You are correct. I've forgot about that rule
     
  11. mapcar

    mapcar Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    fremont, ca
    I believe a few simple principles, the strongest players should not meet before finals, and players from same country should not meet before finals. When those principles are violated (by the organizers who disrespected the game), then everything else is fair game.
     
  12. ionoo

    ionoo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    I guess when you are playing against someone much lower level you must go all out as well, totally playing to demolish like they are same level, cause you have to "respect" and play with "honesty".
     
  13. ionoo

    ionoo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    yes the spectators who were all butthurt didnt realize they basically spoiled women's doubles final by

    pressuring IOC to do something drastic and this was the DQ of pretty much the strongest pairs leaving countries like Russia and South Africa etc competing when they were eliminated rather easily.
     
  14. SolsticeOfLight

    SolsticeOfLight Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,203
    Likes Received:
    113
    Location:
    Belgium
    I've done it:
    Group stages of 5 to a pool. Already won the first 3 games and was guaranteed to go through to the 1/2 final (and win the pool).
    My ankle hurt.
    I didn't try too hard in the last match. I lost the last match in the group. I won the tournament.
     
  15. Ton-Min-Bad

    Ton-Min-Bad Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Germany
    ^You should have destroyed your ankle before, you damn f... loser with no sportsmanship!

    :mad:;):D
     
  16. NanoBatien

    NanoBatien Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New Zealand
    When at a tournament the aim is to win the tournament, not win the matches...
     
  17. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    [0,0,0]
    For you're first and second principles the format actually met your criteria. The format only broke down because the second CHN WD pair failed to win their group. So based on that result they lost the 'right' to not meet the so called strongest pair until the finals.

    The only way to guarantee your so called 'principles' is to screw the tournament all together and have the first ranked team play the second ranked team right off the bat for gold and the fourth and third ranked team play for bronze. So reduce the whole competition down to two matches.

    Your principles are impossible to meet because the first condition assumes a predetermined result. YOU might try to say that the other Chinese team was the second best team but they failed to live up to that billing. The second Chinese team lost and the first Chinese team tried to dodge the consequences of that result. Too bad, no team has a right to any draw they feel is fair. As for your second point, what if one KOR pair was ranked 1rst and the second KOR pair was ranked 5th. Why should sharing a flag with the top ranked team shield the weaker team?

    The funny thing about this is that 90% of those here who are desperately trying to defend the actions of the CHN WD teams would be on this forum screaming blue murder if it was instead, the KOR teams juxtaposed with the CHN teams.

    Everything is fair game? Really? Everything is on the table? Performance enhancing drugs? Fair game? Body contact? Fair game? Give me a break.
     
  18. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Messages:
    8,905
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Yes
    Location:
    Arrakis
    I love this thread! :p
    It shows me exactly who is who (or what), if you know what I mean.... ;)
    It kinda brings to mind that line, "be careful what you wish for..." :cool:
     
  19. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,180
    Likes Received:
    14
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    Of course these're ways to do so, to prevent a chaos, and gurantee the higher ranked player not to meet too early:

    1. The single elimination format, as they are using before.
    2. After group, re-do the draw, to honor the ranking, as the ranking reflect ppl's entire year's performance, rather than 1 or 2 matches. Do you see NBA let the top #1 and #2 playing at the 1st round of playoff, simply because both of them lost the last season game? You do not take away ppl's ranking, simply because they have 1 or 2 bad game out of the year.

    Of course, BWF should see this in advanced, and they were warned by the coaches. However, they just simple refuse to improve on their own end, and contribute to the total mess.

    So, the BWF should be man up to take the blame on their fair share, and god, we are still here talking about this, after the event was done 1 week already???
     
    #59 LazyBuddy, Aug 11, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
  20. SolsticeOfLight

    SolsticeOfLight Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,203
    Likes Received:
    113
    Location:
    Belgium
    And negate all the effort rank #54 put in to come top of their group?
     

Share This Page