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Would you do it? --> Throw a match to win?

Discussion in 'Olympics LONDON 2012' started by Capnx, Aug 1, 2012.

  1. Shingyboy

    Shingyboy Regular Member

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    You know we do this in football all the time, but we have a bit more corruption in football so. I think the pressure of absolutely winning makes athletes get the best chance of winning, like in football we always dive so we get free kicks and control of the ball. It is quite sad but I think every sport is plagued by basically wanting to win so bad they do anything.
     
  2. Jonc108

    Jonc108 Regular Member

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    In OG basketball, Spain just did this in their last group match. They (chose to obviously) throw this match in order to avoid the mighty USA team in knock-out stage until the final.... Yet no one gave a sh*t...

    And they achieved their purpose, entered the finals!
     
  3. chees

    chees New Member

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    you wouldn't be negating their effort, you would be rewarding them by allowing them to go to the elimination stage ahead of all those other teams who didn't do well enough to graduate from the group stage, even if they were originally ranked higher.
     
  4. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Who said to negate their effort? They are rewarded to enter the QF, which suppose to be top 16, instead of 54.

    However, you can not use their "flashy run" for 2 or 3 matches, to negate the higher ranking team's ENTIRE YEAR's effort, which is to achieve higher ranking for 10 events (say, 50+ matches)
     
  5. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Because their action is praised as "smart strategy", but the badminton matches were quoted as "dirty trick", "lack of effort", etc. Same story, 2 totally different outcome. It's really down to want you want to name it.
     
  6. CanucksDynasty

    CanucksDynasty Regular Member

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    Single elimination. Don't win = your out of the tournament.
     
  7. mapcar

    mapcar Regular Member

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    i am not even going to entertain the geopolitically loaded accusations in the rest of your post.

    with regard to this above point, so, which way is it? If you insist the second chinese pair is the weaker than the Danes, because they lost, then there is no advantage for the others to try to lose anymore.
     
  8. julianng

    julianng Regular Member

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    LCW let go of the 2nd game and lost that game on purpose in the final against Lin Dan because he was saving energy for the 3rd game.

    Does this mean he should DISQUALIFIED for not putting BEST EFFORTS into the match ?? LOL !!!
     
  9. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    That exactly highlighted that the format should take a good share of the blame: How could you negate player's ranking (1 year, 10 events, 50+ matches), by using 1 match's result? It's like saying, the NBA #1 and #2 may have to play against each other for the 1st round of playoff, simply because both lost their last regular season game.

    That's why I think group match (round robin) may stay, but after the group, the draw should be based on the ranking, rather than the group match result.
     
  10. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    Well.. your complaint makes little sense from the perspective of the Chinese team. After all in the normal knock out format you pine for the eventual gold medal winners would have been eliminated with their loss to the Danes.

    And yes I agree that the format, the BWF and the national associations all share a good chunk of the blame. However that doesn't absolve the players from their share.

    This quote of your's shows the flawed logic we are up against. Sure let the round robin stay.... then if the results are not in line with world ranking we'll just toss them and arrange the draw by world ranking. Ranking is not entitlement to the easiest route through to the finals.
     
  11. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I never said the round robin result will be entirely tossed. If say a player ranking 50, s/he should not be in the QF to begin with, if pure on ranking. However, if s/he wins the group, s/he will surely advanced, but not as the top seed. On the other side, if a say a player ranking #1, s/he somehow did not advanced from the group, then s/he will be elimited, regardless what's the ranking. So, of course the round robin result will be honored. However, only honored as per "qualification", not "seeding". Because, compare to the ranking, it is just a "flash" of performance rather than consistency.

    Sure, if 1 year of consistent performance (10 events, 50+ matches) should not be entitled, then you 2 or 3 group matches flashy result should be entitled then?

    Tell me this, in any professional sports, such as NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, etc, which one does NOT use the entire season's result (ranking) to setup the playoff bracket? Which one os them using say, the result of last 3 season games (and disgard the earlier 99%) to set up the playoff???
     
    #71 LazyBuddy, Aug 21, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
  12. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    Why not just go with the traditional knock out format and avoid all of this complexity. Also, you are mistaken in the fact that there was any kind setup to the draw based on group play. Group play doesn't work that way. The winners of one group play the second place team from another group. If a 50th ranked player wins their group, why should they have the right to play the second place team from the other group, which they earned by winning their group, revoked?

    The problem with the group play format had nothing to do with rankings. Group play will not work when you have multiple players from the same country.

    Because the players won their group in that tournament and therefore deserve the draw placing they earned.

    The Olympics is not a league it is a stand alone tournament. It doesn't matter what you did before that as long as you meet the qualification criteria. The Olympics are not part of the BWF super series. You're making an apples to oranges comparison.
     
  13. Heong

    Heong Regular Member

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    I would. I just wouldn't make it as obvious. And I say this but putting myself in the athletes shoes. Coaches have made the order, told you it'll be better for you and you'll have a clearer route to the medals

    No one cares about the 'Olympic spirit'. We live in the 21st century in 2012. Everything is about winning, no one would risk losing a medal or be disadvantaged just to show the spirit. People would only laugh at your stupidity

    Seriously, if you were in their shoes, trained your ass up 4+ years for the Olympics of hard physical and mental preparation and high expectations from your people and families... as if you won't snatch every small opportunity or advantage to get that gold medal that you so hoped for?

    Sure back in the days of Zeus and the Olympia the spirit was nurtured BECAUSE it was a totally different environment and culture back then. They believed in the gods, religions and what-not. If you performed badly you will suffer divine consequences. But today, people just want to get on with their lives and careers, no one believes in Zeus and there are even atheists. There are no sporting gods worshipped in this day

    These disqualified kids were not taught the history of Olympia and it was never a requirement to study this to become an athlete. Would Yu Yang read the book of Zeus? No! How can anyone even bring up the 'Olympic spirit' on this day when it died out hundreds and hundreds of years ago. I find it quite sad

    Pretend there was no crowd watching at the stadium on that day. I think the result could've been different. The fact that sport going through commodification has really changed the definition of sport in general. And I think this is the main issue here. What can we truely define as sport and a great athlete? Can being strategic and cunning also a part of athleticism? I think the definitions are very different today than in 776BC

    Just my opinion
     
    #73 Heong, Aug 21, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
  14. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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