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Yonex DENMARK Open SS Premier 2014 : Round of 16 (16th October 2014)

Discussion in 'Dutch / Denmark Open 2014' started by CLELY, Oct 15, 2014.

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  1. tsae75

    tsae75 Regular Member

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    When Lin Dan's knee was injured, he managed to beat Tien Chen Chou (in 3 sets).

    When Jan Jorgensen's knee was injured, he couldn't beat Tien Chen Chou (gave up halfway).

    Using Tien as a benchmark, it seems a knee-injured LD would probably reign over a knee-injured Jan Jorgensen.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. nthanhhai

    nthanhhai Regular Member

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    It depends on how serious the injury was. Can't just simply use math here. And who was the last player defeated LD?
     
  3. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    Don't play against Tien.
     
  4. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    LOL! Just LOL!!!
     
  5. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

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    Why paying to watch chicken plays?
     
  6. scorpion1

    scorpion1 Regular Member

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    LD got injury because of that match. He did not carried that injury into that match as if you are mentioning. So, your total hypothesis gone wrong.
     
  7. Devendra

    Devendra Regular Member

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    Why does everyone have to necessarily bash LD?
    Yes. it was disappointing and extremely unfortunate that he couldn't carry on. For me personally, the interest in the tournament, instantly was reduced to a quarter of what it was. Instead of being the tournament where the God is participating, it is reduced to merely another tournament. And yes, even I activated Star Sports on my TATA SKY (cable services) especially for matches of Lin Dan.
    That said, what happens happens. Lin Dan is seriously interested in raising his rankings and winning more points. He was playing both the Denmark and the French Open. He came to denmark, played the matches. For him, his knee isn't all right. Why would he risk the chances of a more brutal injury by risking playing along. He has also opted out of French Open.
    Some people are saying that he chickened out or whatever. Well, I think it is rather naive to think that. If he was fit and had a bad first round, this doesn't mean much. Many people start slow and may face problems in the first round. Also, there should also be no reason for him to fear. Does anyone really think that he is mentally this weak? A shame since many of the same people often put all the reasons of his successes solely on his mental fitness, which goes the other way of the extreme. He also withdrew from the french open. Also remember Jorgensen, though a good player, has beaten Lin Dan twice, of which at least the recent one was against an LD who was playing his first real individual international tournament. (That is removing all GPs etc.)
     
  8. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    LD for all of his career was almost never seriously injured. That is phenomenal. But the price to pay for being so carefull about it is that we rarely see him.
    Besides, in recent tournaments in early rounds it is painfull to see how unmotivated he is. Only when he gets to fight against his biggest opponents in the last stages of tournaments he seems to get hot.
     
  9. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    To even hint, let alone say it outright, that Lin Dan was afraid to play JOJ or any other player for that matter must be the greatest joke in badminton history - the truth is everybody is either intimidated by Lin Dan or loathe to play him esp in the early rounds (so would much prefer LD rise in world ranking quickly so as to avoid meeting him too early). Which planet are you from?

    And it's beneath me to comment on nokh88 who called LD 'chicken' -suits him if he wants to demean himself; by right I'm reluctant to dignify him with a response, pardon me for saying this.

    Why don't people say :

    1) Lin Dan helped JOJ avenged his defeat on Chou Tien Chen and in the process accidentally injured his knee;

    2) He gifted JOJ a walkover first for seeing how devastated the latter was at the Copenhagen WC when he was forced to retire injured in front of his home crowd;

    3)and second, he wanted to spare JOJ the agony of another blow on home soil being bundled out in R2 in front of his home crowd ?

    Hell no, that's not what I'd even insinuate - I'm merely asking hypothetically to give anyone who is thinking along that line a taste of his own medicine - so don't put words into my mouth.

    I'm with Devendra who is always so sensible, fair and balanced in his views and opinions as well as criticisms. Absolutely, Lin Dan is set on doing well in these two tournaments and raise his world ranking; he's actually said he would like to return to world number 1 and LYB is all for it as it will solve his problem of fielding LD in team championships without racking his brains and denying several higher-ranked teammates the honour of representing their country.

    However, the most important reason is every professional athlete ought to protect themselves from injury, even a minor one by not taking risk and aggravating it which may lead to dire consequences such as threatening to cut short one's career. In fact, it should be their bounden duty to take care and stay free from any injury big or small.

    Didn't Carolina Marin chose to stay away from these two SS tourneys citing her ankle injury sustained at the Copenhagen WC which incidentally occurred in R3 and not the final match that won her the world title following which she had a month and a half of rest before the DEN PSS? I don't even have to bring up Lee CW's case where it has nothing to do with injury but simply his desire to take a break, a decision that earns my sympathetic understanding as I believe he really deserves to and should do so to recharge himself.

    I daresay every player who gets a walkover from Lin Dan is more than happy, no one is complaining except those recalcitrant fans whatever their motives or hidden agenda for whom a little self-reflection will be healthy and proper.

    Last but not least, let me add that no player worth his salt, no true fighter will want to play and beat an injured opponent (if he can help it). He will most assuredly derive no pleasure, no satisfaction, no glory doing so - except for those cowards and small people.
     
  10. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Devendra, I won't say it's everyone but just a tiny, hard-core minority who represent no-one but themselves. I'm sure you and I know why, we don't have to spell it out - it's their own problem, not directly caused by Lin Dan - whether it's out of jealousy, ill-will,petty narrow-mindedness, hypocrisy or double standards, they know better.
     
  11. Tybalt

    Tybalt Regular Member

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    Yes, it is particularly petty, but I'm not remotely surprised by this extra fanatical noise that I've pointed out many times before.

    I see zero value in spitting out that kinda drama that everyone knows is just a product of frustration born of having missed out on what would've been a wonderful match, mixed with perhaps a few other less forgivable ingredients.
     
  12. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    Justin, I don't think any professional player would hate meeting LD in early rounds, or be happy with his withdrawal. Any player would be honoured to meet LD. I have seen in many interviews players saying meeting LD is a climax for them, whatever in early or late rounds. I think I would feel the same if I was in their shoes.
     
  13. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I still fail to understand why some people made much of JOJ's recent defeat of Lin Dan who at that time was unequivocally at his most vulnerable so much so I'm certain Lee CW or Chen Long or perhaps one or two others would have succeeded likewise.

    Without a shadow of a doubt, it speaks volumes of Lin Dan's awesome reputation, his being a most fearsome opponent to all, the rarity of his defeats, and the craving of every player to beat him just once regardless of the state he's in.

    Remember Tian Houwei's sensational victory over the mighty Lee CW in early 2013 at the AUS Open?! It bears repeating that when an elated THW reported the breathtaking news to his mother, the response he got from her was a matter-of-fact " One match doesn't prove anything. Strive on with diligence."

    In JOJ's case, where his H2H (not including this walkover) is 2-5 in Lin Dan's favour, I venture to say his second win in June this year at the JPN Open may not count for very much but the last but one in Jan 2012 at the MAS Open definitely is noteworthy. That said, we'll have to await their future encounters to present us a clearer picture. Therefore, the verdict is still out on whether JOJ will become another serious threat to Lin Dan henceforth, apart from Lee CW and Chen Long at the moment.

    Finally, since Lin Dan's comeback in April this year at the CHN Masters, he has so far shown in terms of speed and power, whether in offence or defence, in overall match fitness that he is still at least one or two notches below his best for reasons I need not elaborate again as they've been much discussed already. Personally, I doubt he will ever return to the acme of his prowess as exemplified in the period Beijing'08 to London'12 of his magnificent career.

    In other words, from his last comeback until his retirement in the foreseeable future, he is and will be more beatable than ever...unless he surprises me once more beyond my imagination.
     
  14. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    What you say is simply the obverse, not the reverse, of what I've said.
     
  15. Devendra

    Devendra Regular Member

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    Thank you Justin, for your kind words. Yes I am a huge fan of this great sport. I tried watching tennis, but somehow I find Badminton much more interesting and appealing ( That is of course with the present format. I hope the 11 point one doesn't take away chances to see supreme tactical planning, good defense, and art of badminton). i am a huge fan of Lin Dan, and often in some talk with other fans, ones from the ROW who don't find it amusing that a CHN player wacks everybody regularly, I am called biased towards LD when I accuse them for their bias. I explain them, that the moment someone starts playing better than LD or reaches the level of LD, I will become his fan. I am a fan of LD, not because of his nationality or anything, I rather appreciate that he himself is doing a part in overcoming narrow-minded nationalism by choosing to go with Yonex, but simply because I have never seen a player like him in badminton ever! Not to say that I can make comparisons, may be he is not the all time best, may be some previous generations had a better player, I don't know, coz I wasn't there. But for the present times, there simply is no one near to LD, simply none.

    People like Gillian Clark have this bias against any CHN player. After LD withdrew, she recited all the other withdrawals of LD, in some kind of contempt. She will always include LCW in her list of all time bests, and would treat both LD and LCW of the same level ( treating LD below LCW will, perhaps classify the person as mad and people refrain from doing so). But for the time I have seen, which includes both LD and LCW, LD is simply better.

    That said, I don't totally agree with you on other players part. The feeling is more complicated. There are two competing feelings. Every person wants to play against LD, to improve their game and to simply have the privilege of doing so. But yes, people will generally feel happy about any tough opponent withdrawing. Now here comes the mix of feelings. The above two feelings mix up to make a blend of emotions, depending on the tournament, player concerned etc. If there is a player X who can meet LD. He would be relieved for a walkover if it is about a tournament that is very important, like the Olympics or WC, or they have already met enough, like LCW. For other tournaments, and especially other players, having the privilege to play against LD, may even be the highlight of their careers. Scott Evans is a European Player who played against LD in London 2012. Since then, the display pic of his twitter account has been the one of that match. So yes, it is a privilege. Even Jan O Jorgensen, after his match in R1, said that he is privileged to play against him, that he considers LD to be the greatest player, the legend, and each match against him is makes him feel special. After knowing LD's withdrawal, His statement was that he is extremely sad and disappointed. He was looking upto the match. he also said, "I'm disappointed. I would have really liked to play this game. It is the match you live and breathe for, so I would have really liked to be in action against him here at home," Finally he concluded that he is sad about not playing the match but neverthless it is good that he's moved to the next round. So this all fits my theory rather well.
     
  16. Devendra

    Devendra Regular Member

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    So the only match of today that I am interested in is Saina vs WSX, but I bet Saina will win. WSX is, notwithstanding her deft touches, drops and stroke play, simply an incomplete player. She just can't smash! And don't say it is just one stroke. It is a whole f*****g aspect of the game. That is taking the lead and aggression. I really disliked Chen Long earlier as well, due to the same reasons, though CL unlike WSX was capable of attack but chose not to do so. It is getting better in recent times that he has altered his style of play, by being more aggressive. I don't say that only aggression is important, but you can't simply be totally handicapped in such an important aspect of the game. You have to be flexible and versatile. I bet LD of can beat anyone on both, his defensive and attacking style That is a total complete player. If one thing doesn't work for LD, he changes, coz he can! WSX for such a good player is totally wasted due to her total in-aptitude at attack.

    As for Saina, she's still got a tough match. It will drain energy. But Go Saina!!
     
  17. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    Of course JOJ is disapointed! And playing LD must be not only a priviledge, something to remember, but also a joy.
     
  18. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    tsae75's proposition isn't entirely invalid though the extent of LD's or JOJ's respective injury is difficult to measure to pinpoint accuracy even by today's medical standards unless it's clear-cut. Allow me to say, scorpion1 is missing his point and splitting hairs.

    In Lin Dan's case, we're not sure at which point he felt knee discomfort during his match with Chou TC but we know he was unrecognisable in G2 from the second half onward losing by a humbling score of 10-21 after barely edging out his opponent 22-20 in the 1st set, and his movement looked hampered in the decider, the final winning score 21-18 notwithstanding; all in all, the match was much closer than we had expected.

    In JOJ's case, his injury was presumably sustained the day before in his match with Eetu Heino but he still managed to comprehensively beat his Finnish opponent,21-9 and 21-17, and then in the following match with Chou TC, he carried on for two sets , 9-21, 4-9 before throwing in the towel. My point is if JOJ's injury was serious enough, he would be forced to concede the match to Heino and the CTC match would be a nonstarter; mind you, CTC is a very respectable opponent, far from a pushover.

    Well, anyway, I think this topic will be an exercise in futility, your opinion is as good as mine. I stop here.
     
  19. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Naturally, for a player like Scott Evans who has nothing to lose, he will cherish and feel honoured to play Lin Dan any time and every time. But for any top 10 or 20 players, they would much prefer to meet him in later rounds if possible, irrespective of the privilege to play the living legend or the dread of losing to him for the umpteenth time. Yup, suppose we replace JOJ with Lee CW as the recipient of Lin Dan's walkover in R2 here, need I state the obvious?

    You know, if Lin Dan had decided he wanted to be game enough to take on JOJ so as not to disappoint anyone (and at risk of aggravating the injury) and ended up giving us a lop-sided mediocre match or, worse still, with him falling to the ground in excruciating pain mid-way through the fateful match - would that be a spectacle we prefer? Would JOJ derive any joy in such an outcome?

    Fair enough, spectators pay money to be entertained and hate to be disappointed. But these athletes (performers) are only human and their individual career doesn't depend on a single match (show), not to mention they have as much rights as anybody in safeguarding their well-being and happiness (even if we disregard their free will). Well, if somebody offers Lin Dan USD1 mn or more to play that match with JOJ, win or lose, despite his knee discomfort, it's possible he might think it worthwhile to risk breaking his leg. Just kidding.:D:p
     
  20. Ashaan

    Ashaan Regular Member

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    When I read that post, where one person referred LinDan.. " .. that Chicken withdrew from the tournament", I just couldn't believe it..

    And how could such a person be educated/enlightened.. ?

    I thought that post itself, didn't deserve any comments... But seeing that you people are so much concerned to it, and trying to educate/inform that person, just wanted to say, that it's one-single-person's opinion, and don't even bother to educate such i*d**ts.. :)

    I too was disappointed to know, that LinDan got injury, and had to withdrew from the Tournament.. Since LinDan is playing this tournament, I was just hoping to watch his matches, and yesterday late night 11:30pm (India) I was following this, and came to know about that withdrawal..

    As a spectator, and a Badminton Lover, I'm cherishing his come-back, and the games he is playing in his later currier..
    I guess, every badminton player (including JOJ) would love to play against such a capable opponent, 2 times OG Gold Medalist, 5 times WC....

    Cheers... Lets move on...
     
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