User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 18 to 32 of 32
  1. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    T.O.
    Posts
    2,096
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    here's the freeze-frame follow through of Tony Gunawan. You can see that the forward "push" makes up nearly half of the distance of the arc, and nearly 2/3 of the distance from the start of the serve to the point of impact of the shuttle in frame 5.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    T.O.
    Posts
    2,096
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Here is Chandra's serve. It seems that he doesn't push at all... or pushes the least of the three. Any hand movement seems to merely accomodate the movement of the wrist rather than to add power to the serve.

    Forgot to mention, I only looked at short serves for all three players.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  3. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Essex, England
    Posts
    1,223
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Great pictures, those should be in the FAQ or Articles thread Kwun / Cheung / Mag

  4. #21
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Outside the box
    Posts
    13,180
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Originally posted by bigredlemon
    I thought that the pros only used wrist motion and did not push at all... but after comparing freeze-frames, i've found that most players DO use some push motion, although not much.
    So the original question is quite difficult to answer. How do we actually define 'mostly' push or 'mostly' wrist? Even the pictures BRL put up show a follow through. Can that be counted as part of the force imparted to the shuttle?

    And again, if one were to use just the 'wrist', there is only a limited amount freedom on the joint. More movement can be obtain with rotation of the forearm along its axis and use of the fingers.

    Before getting too carried away with details, I'd just like to add that IMHO, a good quality serve and preparation for the next shot is more important than wether a serve use more 'wrist' or push. A good quality serve sets course of the point...

  5. #22
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Singapore Also Can
    Posts
    11,656
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    BRL

    Fantastic pics! Many thanks for taking so much trouble and time to analyse the serves of three of the most impressive men's doubles players of today. Should this not be classified as 'bio-mechanics" - again, an area of interest to you I suppose.

    Perhap Joanne can also see clearly that the left leg of these RH players is placed behind to convince her that this backhand serve stance is generally employed by many international players. Granted that we can't see the legs of Sigit. Btw, Sigit' serve seems to be very shallow i.e. his service "arc" is rather short. Does this mean that he uses more fingers/wrist when striking the shuttle?

    I can see that one distinct advantage of the backhand serve is that at the end of the serve, one's racket is naturally pointed upwards, away from the body and ready for the opponent's return shot at the net. The forehand serve, on the other hand ends across one's body most times and may not be as efficient as the backhand for quick counters at the net. However, the forehand high serve affords some time for the server to prepare himself for the opponent's return.

  6. #23
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Santa Clara, California, United States
    Posts
    35,909
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    excellent pics BRL and interesting point Loh. another observation i have is that with the racketfoot forward backhand service, the racket foot is in front after the service, that is a neutral position that allows the server to take a return on both left and right side, be it a drive or a push or netdrop. and it is also fast to do a chasse to kill off a bad net return.

    for a forehand service, the racketfoot is usually at the back and will be slower moving to the backhand side and toward the net, and disadvantage at the drive counter return.

  7. #24
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Outside the box
    Posts
    13,180
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Loh

    refer to this thread and the post I wrote on the 30 Oct 2002. The point you made and Kwun's footwork point is stated there.

    Agree with your point on the very high f/hand serve .

  8. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    T.O.
    Posts
    2,096
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Originally posted by Cheung
    Loh

    refer to this thread and the post I wrote on the 30 Oct 2002. The point you made and Kwun's footwork point is stated there.

    Agree with your point on the very high f/hand serve .
    Happy to post the pics . After looking over the thread you just posted (by myself oddly) I just remembered something... different players use a different trajectory in their backhand serve.

    For some players, the cork is pointed towards the server/racquet at the start of service, and flips over mid-flight about when it flies over the net. The cork points straight upwards about 2 feet before reaching the net. This forces the server to serve higher over the net or else it won't land past the line, since the bird will be slightly forced by its angular momentum to point down and dive. This arc is the most curved, and unsymmetrical.

    I've also seen a variation in which the court flips from down to back up though I haven't seen any international players do it during a tournament. It's arc is the most flat. (It's actually two arcs.)

    Some players also serve with the cork pointed down, and thus it's like the first serve but the effect is much smaller. This is a curved arc but less curved than the first one, and much more symmetrical.

    I've tried doing all three many times and found that I get the best arc with the cork pointed down, but there's a large risk of the bird's head wobbling up and down during flight and falling short. Presumably I hit the skirt. The first serve is easier to attack but it's also easier to execute.

    Do you guys and gals think bird/cork positioning matters? If so how do serve?

  9. #26
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts
    2,370
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have seen many players who serves holding the shuttle horizontally. Don't know if they have the cork part pointing inwards.

    One thing to remember is that on service, the first point of contact with the shuttle should be the cork part. Contacting the feathers (skirt) first is deemed a fault.

    Law 9.1.4 the server's racket shall initially hit the base of the shuttle.

  10. #27
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ontario, canada
    Posts
    180
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Originally posted by bigredlemon
    I've tried doing all three many times and found that I get the best arc with the cork pointed down, but there's a large risk of the bird's head wobbling up and down during flight and falling short. Presumably I hit the skirt. The first serve is easier to attack but it's also easier to execute.

    Do you guys and gals think bird/cork positioning matters? If so how do serve?
    Excellent analysis. Never thought about how I serve but I used to serve with the bird pointing more downwards. Now I serve with the bird pointing at the racket. I notice that the bird flies a little farther and flick serves are a bit better. However I mostly use an arm motion to serve and add a wrist flick for a flick serve.

  11. #28
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,747
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Originally posted by Winex West Can
    I have seen many players who serves holding the shuttle horizontally. Don't know if they have the cork part pointing inwards.

    One thing to remember is that on service, the first point of contact with the shuttle should be the cork part. Contacting the feathers (skirt) first is deemed a fault.

    Law 9.1.4 the server's racket shall initially hit the base of the shuttle.
    Yes, cork must be first contact to prevent server delivering a spinning serve. In an umpiring seminar which I attended a few years ago, an international umpire mentioned that they 'allowed' players position the shuttle sideways as long as the bird does not spin.

  12. #29
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Outside the box
    Posts
    13,180
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    BRL, I think you are working on the same lines that I did many years ago with the serve. As you have found, different positioning of the shuttle can produce different trajectory for service.

    Here's a tip for you:

    try striking the shuttle with different angle racquet face. ie / or \ or |

    also try these out with different path of the racquet ie. mostly horizontal direction on hitting shuttle, or more upward path

    The results are very interesting and you can make your choice which serve suits you best.

  13. #30
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Cannock, UK
    Posts
    2,908
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I hold the shuttle horizontally for backhand service, with the cork pointing slightly towards the racquet.
    If you hold the feathers and let the cork hang downwards, after serving, the shuttle wobbles up and down until the air resistance dampens the wobble.
    If you hold it horizontally, it wobbles left to right.
    With an up and down wobble you have to aim that bit higher over the net because you don't know if a wobble is going to catch the net.

    The wobble is more noticeable with plastic than feathers.
    Plastics tend to be shorter than feathers, so the damping from air resistance is slower to react (angular momentum and distance of action from centre of mass and all that). And possibly a plastic skirt provides less air resistance than feathers, lading to reduced damping again.

  14. #31
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    New Delhi
    Posts
    14
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Friend Read the rules.if u arent breaking any of them hen its legal.Besids I think Bao uses the push serve too

  15. #32
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I do not think that its is a service fault because the service rules do not prevent it in any way. However, I think that movement of the hand holding the shuttle should be made a fault. I come across players who move the shuttle hand sideways at the last moment after they have started the forward movement of the racket. It prevents any prediction of the trajectory and likely path of the shuttle so the serve cannot be attacked not by any skill and has the same effect as a dummied serve. Most unfair.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Similar Threads

  1. The "U", the "G" and the "tension" specifications of a Badminton racket
    By chris-ccc in forum Badminton Rackets / Equipment
    Replies: 85
    : 07-07-2014, 05:54 AM
  2. "Top-spin" backhand low serve
    By Line & Length in forum Techniques / Training
    Replies: 11
    : 06-14-2011, 04:38 PM
  3. short serve and the push
    By saifiii in forum Techniques / Training
    Replies: 13
    : 03-25-2009, 12:33 AM
  4. Instructional Video: How to "Forehand/Backhand Lift"?
    By Aerotus100JP in forum Badminton Tournament Video Sharing
    Replies: 8
    : 02-21-2006, 11:00 AM
  5. Instructional Video: How to "Push Shot"
    By Aerotus100JP in forum Badminton Tournament Video Sharing
    Replies: 4
    : 02-17-2006, 08:39 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •