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  1. #18
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    Oh... what a match..
    what should i say.. for me as a spectacular it's just 90 minutes of *** with badminton. Such strong atletic beautiful play remains in the memory for years..
    what about LCW.. badly guy.. i wasn't sure who I want to be a winner today.. but after 15:15 in 3rd set i was with a heart for Malaysian..
    so pity.. 2 match points..

    exactly said about Federer

  2. #19
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    It is indeed sad. LCW was very good up until the final. He had played with confidence and authority. Then he met LD, and suddenly you can sense that he lost a little bit of the mental strength. And it all culminated when he had 2 match points but couldn't switch to a higher gear to convert. .... Of course, the rest is history when LD converted on his one and only match point...... LCW is simply not as aggressive and hungry to win as much as LD. It's all in their personality, which is unchangeable, and can't be learned or taught. That is the difference between LCW and LD.
    Last edited by visor; 08-14-2011 at 05:38 PM.

  3. #20
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    Actually when LCW beats LD we feel this immediately that he is under control and good mood. Not only strength and force.
    Today I felt only that he is playing brilliant, fast, powerful.. but I didn't see he's controling situation as a potencial winner, i didn't see he enjoy a game..

  4. #21
    Regular Member Maklike Tier's Avatar
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    There's a glaring Elephant in the room that everyone - including foaming-at-the-mouth patriot Malaysians - don't really seem to be aware of. Read this slowly so it sinks in.....

    In our lifetime, China will own EVERY SPORT THERE IS.

    Okay let me clarify - every sport that has commercial leverage within the populous. Those that don't eventually will - it will just take longer.

    The reason is simple. China has the recruitment network, and a talent base, that every other country doesn't even come close to. And they have the burgeoning middle class to keep the coffers stoked. The only thing that keeps countries like Denmark and Malaysia in the game is the sheer popularity of the sport.

    The harsh reality is.....make the most of it.

    Win or Lose, I love LCW, and it's not dependent on him winning. He's the hard working, human face of Badminton. He has frailties and weaknesses as do us all. Part of the joy of watching him play is the playing out of his 'self', and actually watching him grow and develop as the years roll on. I like the fact that he clearly has nerves. I like the fact that he has a new found confidence and less passive type of play than he had, even a year ago. At the end of the day, it's good television.

    The flip side to that coin, is Lin Dan. A methodical by-product of the Chinese sport-military complex. A poster boy for the ruling party - pure propaganda. Just look at the cheering minions, even in London.

    It would be easy to argue I think, that LCW in a different environment would be better than Lin Dan. Technically and physically they're both on-par, but the difference is largely the external factors. For example, LCW actually has to work for a living, so he plays more competitions than LD, he works harder than LD. Badminton China has an overall gameplan for cherry-picked tournaments for LD, as well as a large repository of 'domestiques' to muddy the waters, which we're seeing clearly in the lead up to the Olympics.

    The thing that I've noticed even at a club level is that there is really a lack of the appreciation for the sport, and like all human endeavours, there's a visceral humanity to everything that we do, and when it's taken out of the equation, we all lose. Who could get joy from watching Lin Dan win, aside from the callous, well indoctrinated, the brutal? There is no joy, no melodrama, no journey. Just by-product.

    Malaysians? Enjoy it for what it is, while you can.


  5. #22
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    Maklike,

    agree that China has a huge population to select from, but you are making it sound like Malaysia is this 3rd world country that badminton are played in rice patties and back alleys. doesn't Malaysia also have sports school, have training system in every state, have a national team that pays stipend and living accomodation for every player? perhaps not as strong a system as China, but there is a system in place. why is that any inferior to the Chinese system? why cannot Malaysia make it as good a China (except for the size of the pool, i guess).

    also you made it sounds like LCW is on poverty. he is very rich, doesn't he drive a Nissan GTR? that's an expensive car. doesn't he have lands that the country give him? LCW also has sponsors and given his fame he has other sources of income i am sure.

    life may not be as good as Lin Dan, but he is extremely well off. even i as a professional engineer i cannot a GTR.

  6. #23
    Regular Member Maklike Tier's Avatar
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    That's right LD, do your little military salute. Good boy.

    Not at all Kwun. Size of the pool - 27 vs 1335. You do the math.

    That MS final was intense. I actually feel a bit ill after watching it.

    Kwun, I'm not sure you're acknowledging the systemic differences - you're only focussing on the money. 'Resourses' isn't what sort of car you drive, or if you have to pay for your own hotels. He with the best toys doesn't win, and it's not about GDP either (not to mention I made no mention whatsoever about world economics, so I don't know where you got the idea I was calling Malaysia '3rd World'.)

    Regardless, we've yet to see the best of LCW. The new found confidence, of taking charge and being more in command (vs his old passive - agressive self) is awesome to see....and like I said, part of the great human drama that makes him a better than Lin Dan.


  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklike Tier View Post
    There's a glaring Elephant in the room that everyone - including foaming-at-the-mouth patriot Malaysians - don't really seem to be aware of. Read this slowly so it sinks in.....

    In our lifetime, China will own EVERY SPORT THERE IS.

    Okay let me clarify - every sport that has commercial leverage within the populous. Those that don't eventually will - it will just take longer.

    The reason is simple. China has the recruitment network, and a talent base, that every other country doesn't even come close to. And they have the burgeoning middle class to keep the coffers stoked. The only thing that keeps countries like Denmark and Malaysia in the game is the sheer popularity of the sport.

    The harsh reality is.....make the most of it.

    Win or Lose, I love LCW, and it's not dependent on him winning. He's the hard working, human face of Badminton. He has frailties and weaknesses as do us all. Part of the joy of watching him play is the playing out of his 'self', and actually watching him grow and develop as the years roll on. I like the fact that he clearly has nerves. I like the fact that he has a new found confidence and less passive type of play than he had, even a year ago. At the end of the day, it's good television.

    The flip side to that coin, is Lin Dan. A methodical by-product of the Chinese sport-military complex. A poster boy for the ruling party - pure propaganda. Just look at the cheering minions, even in London.

    It would be easy to argue I think, that LCW in a different environment would be better than Lin Dan. Technically and physically they're both on-par, but the difference is largely the external factors. For example, LCW actually has to work for a living, so he plays more competitions than LD, he works harder than LD. Badminton China has an overall gameplan for cherry-picked tournaments for LD, as well as a large repository of 'domestiques' to muddy the waters, which we're seeing clearly in the lead up to the Olympics.

    The thing that I've noticed even at a club level is that there is really a lack of the appreciation for the sport, and like all human endeavours, there's a visceral humanity to everything that we do, and when it's taken out of the equation, we all lose. Who could get joy from watching Lin Dan win, aside from the callous, well indoctrinated, the brutal? There is no joy, no melodrama, no journey. Just by-product.

    Malaysians? Enjoy it for what it is, while you can.

    Not every sport there is. China is so strong in Badminton and Table Tennis, but they are not even close in Basketball, Soccer. They are now inching up in Tennis though.

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    It is indeed sad. LCW was very good up until the final. He had played with confidence and authority. Then he met LD, and suddenly you can sense that he lost a little bit of the mental strength. And it all culminated when he had 2 match points but couldn't switch to a higher gear to convert. .... Of course, the rest is history when LD converted on his one and only match point...... LCW is simply not as aggressive and hungry to win as much as LD. It's all in their personality, which is unchangeable, and can't be learned or taught. That is the difference between LCW and LD.
    A very intellectual statement of you. Sad is the ideal word to sum it all at this point of time for LCW, his fans and even to the extend of his critics who felt for the man himself.

    But his time will come if he just hang in there for a little longer... all the signs are already there and eventually he will get something big at the end of his career for a consistent and hard working chap.
    Last edited by flite; 08-14-2011 at 08:07 PM.

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    It is indeed sad. LCW was very good up until the final. He had played with confidence and authority. Then he met LD, and suddenly you can sense that he lost a little bit of the mental strength. And it all culminated when he had 2 match points but couldn't switch to a higher gear to convert. .... Of course, the rest is history when LD converted on his one and only match point...... LCW is simply not as aggressive and hungry to win as much as LD. It's all in their personality, which is unchangeable, and can't be learned or taught. That is the difference between LCW and LD.
    I concur. Of all the matches I don't recall seeing LCW yelling or any act of aggreesion outside of play, in my opinion he's too humble.

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by damondemon View Post
    Guys, 2nd is still good in malaysian books...2nd in olympics get dato, 2nd in worlds get??? Tan sri?? Anyway, in semis LCW kissed ASTRO badge, not malaysia flag...guessed he miskissed? LCW should like LD concentrate on MAJOR events, not say and not do! Look at LD, he say he focus on MAJOR events and he DO IT!!!!
    Wish you guys see their training esp KKK, he only know how to blame training, coach....his own attitude?
    Do you think BAM would allow LCW to play only in majors....if LCW does as you say, the rest of the malaysian team cannot even get into finals of SS and BAM looked like fools despite the millions of ringgit yours and your parents tax-payers are paying into.

  11. #28
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    some smart mouth words you have there: " A methodical by-product of the Chinese sport-military complex. A poster boy for the ruling party - pure propagand"

    ... blah blan blah ... Typical western biased BS

    LD worked hard & trained hard just like LCW, and won this match fair and square, THAT'S IT!


    Quote Originally Posted by Maklike Tier View Post
    There's a glaring Elephant in the room that everyone - including foaming-at-the-mouth patriot Malaysians - don't really seem to be aware of. Read this slowly so it sinks in.....

    In our lifetime, China will own EVERY SPORT THERE IS.

    Okay let me clarify - every sport that has commercial leverage within the populous. Those that don't eventually will - it will just take longer.

    The reason is simple. China has the recruitment network, and a talent base, that every other country doesn't even come close to. And they have the burgeoning middle class to keep the coffers stoked. The only thing that keeps countries like Denmark and Malaysia in the game is the sheer popularity of the sport.

    The harsh reality is.....make the most of it.

    Win or Lose, I love LCW, and it's not dependent on him winning. He's the hard working, human face of Badminton. He has frailties and weaknesses as do us all. Part of the joy of watching him play is the playing out of his 'self', and actually watching him grow and develop as the years roll on. I like the fact that he clearly has nerves. I like the fact that he has a new found confidence and less passive type of play than he had, even a year ago. At the end of the day, it's good television.

    The flip side to that coin, is Lin Dan. A methodical by-product of the Chinese sport-military complex. A poster boy for the ruling party - pure propaganda. Just look at the cheering minions, even in London.

    It would be easy to argue I think, that LCW in a different environment would be better than Lin Dan. Technically and physically they're both on-par, but the difference is largely the external factors. For example, LCW actually has to work for a living, so he plays more competitions than LD, he works harder than LD. Badminton China has an overall gameplan for cherry-picked tournaments for LD, as well as a large repository of 'domestiques' to muddy the waters, which we're seeing clearly in the lead up to the Olympics.

    The thing that I've noticed even at a club level is that there is really a lack of the appreciation for the sport, and like all human endeavours, there's a visceral humanity to everything that we do, and when it's taken out of the equation, we all lose. Who could get joy from watching Lin Dan win, aside from the callous, well indoctrinated, the brutal? There is no joy, no melodrama, no journey. Just by-product.

    Malaysians? Enjoy it for what it is, while you can.

  12. #29
    Regular Member eRa@에라's Avatar
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    I thought to go off mode after the game last night... I really felt so sick since the beginning of the match to the end and even now, I think I got some low blood pressure going on... my eyes sting for tears but they won't come out... not yet... I really feel bad and sad for LCW... he did what he could and I know this is not the end of it... truly, I don't feel any emotion to watch any more red flags winning tourneys... MF is right... we need more of others to win for the sake of the game... I can't imagine not having badminton in any major events in the near future... it's so depressing...

    He said he's coming back to get it right... there will be doubt of whether can he win it next time... but if it's me, I'll definitely coming back... lost is dampening to ones spirit, true... but get back up... consistency wise, LCW's the best in the world for me and I believe many others feel the same... major wise, you know who is...

    Regardless, I will always support him... always!

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by eRa@에라 View Post
    I thought to go off mode after the game last night... I really felt so sick since the beginning of the match to the end and even now, I think I got some low blood pressure going on... my eyes sting for tears but they won't come out... not yet... I really feel bad and sad for LCW... he did what he could and I know this is not the end of it... truly, I don't feel any emotion to watch any more red flags winning tourneys... MF is right... we need more of others to win for the sake of the game... I can't imagine not having badminton in any major events in the near future... it's so depressing...

    He said he's coming back to get it right... there will be doubt of whether can he win it next time... but if it's me, I'll definitely coming back... lost is dampening to ones spirit, true... but get back up... consistency wise, LCW's the best in the world for me and I believe many others feel the same... major wise, you know who is...

    Regardless, I will always support him... always!
    Era, please don;t cry or else I cry with you sure the malaysian sun will come out blazing hot and a new dawn will come, there is still hope cos' OLY gold is bigger target. Have a beer and sleep well....just avoid Tsingtao beer, those are Chinese stuff and LD is Chinese player so don't support Tsingtao beer even those they taste good...on second thought, cry out loud if it makes you feel better, I will cry along with you

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qidong View Post
    What if there was no LD, LCW would have won every majors many times. What if there is no LD and LCW, Taufik and PG would have won every MS titles for past 15 years. What if .....

    Same as Federer. What if there was no Nadal, he would have won over 20 grand slams already.
    I think we can conclude that the existence of LD at the same time also makes LCW a far better player. Without LD, we might not see the LCW that we see today as players like TH and PG are no clearly no match for him.

  15. #32
    Regular Member volcom's Avatar
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    "Why in the world is there Zhuge Liang when there is I, Zhou Yu?"

  16. #33
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    I don't understand why someone can be so negative about the outcome of the men single final. LCW actual played very well and leading most of the time in the game. I think luck was on lin dan side that day.The win is too marginal. Not that i want to rubbish the victory, Lin dan deserves the victory. Fair and Square.I mean when you look at lin dan's face, you can see that he is not sure he can win either. Both of them nervous. Both of them fight untill the end.

    I am a big LCW fan. I am a little disappointed but I am okay. I feel proud that LCW achieved so much and I am not here to argue LCW should have won and LD doesn't deserves the title. This kind of arguement is nonsense.

    I think LCW is the BEST badminton player on earth. He is a lone fighter without the best teammates to support him and spar with him like Lin dan. If Lin dan and LCW change position, it could have been very different. BUT there is no " if".

    By the way, talk about producing good players, the POOL makes hell lots of different. It is one of the fundamental.

    Malaysia has to improve in badminton in many aspects. no doubt about that. the leadership, management, funding, performance management, team culture and all that.I will be the first to pinpoint the leadership of BAM and team culture needs an overhaul. BUT anyone can see that we can not compare to the pool of talents to China, and even indonesia. The size of the talent pool does matter.

    It is just like economy. Look at china, India and Indonesia. Among other things, size does matters.

    If it doesn't matters, Hong Kong and Singapore wouldn't have to import a lot of badminton players form China and Indonesia.

  17. #34
    Regular Member Maklike Tier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiddenPower View Post
    some smart mouth words you have there: " A methodical by-product of the Chinese sport-military complex. A poster boy for the ruling party - pure propaganda"

    ... blah blan blah ... Typical western biased BS

    LD worked hard & trained hard just like LCW, and won this match fair and square, THAT'S IT!
    "smart mouth words"? WTF is that?

    I never said anything even remotely along the lines of "LCW trained harder than LD and deserved it more" or "The match was not won fairly" so I have NFI what you're talking about.

    Instead of self-righteous indignation, how about trying something...I dunno.....like a counter argument?


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