The Walkover & Withdrawal issue - rights and wrongs

[CantSmashThis]

nonsense. Its still India's choice to elect whoever to represent them irrespective the ranking

Technically no, but they can say Kashyap is injured and send Jayaram. Otherwise it will be Kashyap to go. You cannot choose unless it is like WS for China when all 4 WS take top 4 spots and only 3 get to go.

[cobalt]

nonsense. Its still India's choice to elect whoever to represent them irrespective the ranking

That is correct. Here is the abstract:

In singles the draw size will be a maximum of 64. In doubles the draw size will be 16. The BWF ranking list of 3 May 2012 will be used to allocate qualifying places until a total of 38 places in each singles event and 32 places (16 pairs) in each doubles event are allocated. An NOC which has qualified more than its authorised number of quota places will need to confirm which of its eligible player(s)/pair(s) the NOC wishes to enter.

Source: http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file_dow...id=41435&tid=1

The common perception however is that basic fairness must prevail, and therefore the higher-ranked player must be offered the chance to participate, by their NOC.

[craigandy]

In singles the draw size will be a maximum of 64. In doubles the draw size will be 16. The BWF ranking list of 3 May 2012 will be used to allocate qualifying places until a total of 38 places in each singles event and 32 places (16 pairs) in each doubles event are allocated. An NOC which has qualified more than its authorised number of quota places will need to confirm which of its eligible player(s)/pair(s) the NOC wishes to enter.

.

Alan y how do they get to choose whoever irrespective of ranking?

It clearly states- NOC which has qualified more than its authorised number of quota places will need to confirm which of its eligible player(s)/pair(s) the NOC wishes to enter.

Now if you want to send an Indian ranked 200 he is not an eligible player, as you see from above you only get to choose from ELIGIBLE players. For example if you have 10 players in top 64 or whatever you can choose any of those 10 but not somebody ranked 250.

[AlanY]

Alan y how do they get to choose whoever irrespective of ranking?

It clearly states- NOC which has qualified more than its authorised number of quota places will need to confirm which of its eligible player(s)/pair(s) the NOC wishes to enter.

Now if you want to send an Indian ranked 200 he is not an eligible player, as you see from above you only get to choose from ELIGIBLE players. For example if you have 10 players in top 64 or whatever you can choose any of those 10 but not somebody ranked 250.

a good example is China's WS, China can select any 3 of their top 4 ranked players, or any 2 from their 6 top 16 players, or just 1 from about 10 that are ranked high enough.

for doubles there is another condition that they must ranked within the top 50.

for the Indian MS qualification as they are all ranked outside the top 16 they have a choice of 9 players to choose from.

[craigandy]

a good example is China's WS, China can select any 3 of their top 4 ranked players, or any 2 from their 6 top 16 players, or just 1 from about 10 that are ranked high enough.

for doubles there is another condition that they must ranked within the top 50.

for the Indian MS qualification as they are all ranked outside the top 16 they have a choice of 9 players to choose from.

Exactly so not whoever irrespective of rank then like you said before. They can't send Rohit Yadav C. for instance.

[AlanY]

Exactly so not whoever irrespective of rank then like you said before. They can't send Rohit Yadav C. for instance.

correct. he needs to be high enough in the list to be eligible

[undeadshot]

To be honest I don't think it matters whether it is Kashyap or Ajay that appears in the Olympic. You won't see any of them beating Lin Dan, Chen Long and Chen Jin.

[rogerv2]

To be honest I don't think it matters whether it is Kashyap or Ajay that appears in the Olympic. You won't see any of them beating Lin Dan, Chen Long and Chen Jin.

But you cant be absolutely sure, right. I recall Chen Long losing in the first round to Kevin Cordon, a virtually unknown player at that time. So it has happened before and it can happen again.

[cobalt]

Ajay (and to a slightly lesser extent, Kashyap) could come very close to beating CJ on a "normal CJ" day. If CJ is physically below par, Ajay could upset him pretty darn quick.

The point is, manipulating results is cheating, pure and simple. Justifying it with "it doesn't make a difference" or "stop them if you can" or "just following the laws, man" is all after the fact.

We have BWF to thank for this. They are still scratching their behinds. And I'm not sure they will come up with a "solution" to make the issue even more grey.

[george@chongwei]

I'm tired of this discussion. In the end there's nothing you can do about it. Besides I think china's strategy is quite understandable considering the amount of top players it has. They do it, because they can do it.

Agree with you. If badminton is to gain popularity all around the world, 1st, they need to improve themself 1st

[craigandy]

The key to fixing the withdrawal and walk over problem lies in the qualification format for big team tournaments. Take the Olympics, If they changed the qualification so Each country can send any two singles players and doubles/mx pairs if they are in the top 50 in the rankings and all other countries get to send one singles/doubles/mx if they don't have two within top 50 untill places are filled. Put them in opposite sides of the draw and problem fixed!!

For individual events it's just tough luck if they decide to do it, some people get favourable draws some people don't, some people run into an in form lower ranked player some people get bye's it's just luck of the draw so it's all pretty diluted anyway. I do think there would be less walkovers committed if the qualification process for the Olympics was changed.

If China dominated tennis or if they do in the future they will do the same things as they work as a country, individuals get no say apparently or are patriotic enough to sacrifice there sportsmanship. There is no way to stop it fully as there are too many loopholes which are impossible to close unless they do something like pull the player who gift walkovers or allow easy game straight into an interview room strap them up to a lie detector and start asking them quastions like were you really that injured? Did you try your hardest in that game? etc which aint gonna happen.

[kingzzz]

The main cause with all these W/O is the extra slot given to the Olympics for being in the top 4. Realistically only China can do this, no other country has the depth at the moment. Either make it a flat rule of 2 entrants per country. Or have the 3rd place given to to the most dominant country to be decided in some fashion. One idea could be to use the Thomas and Uber Cups. Country that gets the most points (some amount for coming 1st,2nd 3rd etc) in those comps get to have 3 players in that field for the next Olympics

[cobalt]

I don't believe BWF have resolved this issue yet. I searched for some recent announcement or release from them, but nada. I just wonder at times: do they really want to do anything about it at all?

[craigandy]

I don't believe BWF have resolved this issue yet. I searched for some recent announcement or release from them, but nada. I just wonder at times: do they really want to do anything about it at all?

The only way you can 100% "resolve" this issue would be to change a countries imbedded philosophy. It would be great if they could with regards to badminton for the good of badminton but how do you do that?

[gundamzaku]

The only way you can 100% "resolve" this issue would be to change a countries imbedded philosophy. It would be great if they could with regards to badminton for the good of badminton but how do you do that?

good luck with China. i have a hard enough time trying to change the way my mother drives.

[cobalt]

Badminton match-fixing scandal is embarrassing and truly disgraceful, says former Team GB Olympian Gail Emms

The Telegraph, Wednesday 01 August 2012
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oly...Gail-Emms.html

Excerpts:

Gail Emms, a silver medallist at badminton in the Athens Olympics, has revealed that some London 2012 volunteers were in tears at Wembley Arena on Tuesday night at what she called the “truly disgraceful” scenes in the women’s doubles.

Gail Emms, a silver medallist at badminton in the Athens Olympics, has revealed that some London 2012 volunteers were in tears at Wembley Arena on Tuesday night at what she called the “truly disgraceful” scenes in the women’s doubles.

..."The girls were serving so far out it was very embarrassing. What happened was just truly disgraceful. This is the Olympic Games – it is not very much in the Olympic spirit.”

Emms, though, said that she was not surprised by the controversy and claimed that the BWF had ignored warnings in the build-up to the event.

“Every badminton tournament that has ever been played is usually knockout so if, you win you are still in the competition and, if you lose, you go home," she said.

"The idea was to have group stages to show more badminton on the TV, to give the non-dominant countries in badminton more of a chance to play in the Olympic environment.

“It has just really backfired. As soon as I heard it was group stages, I think it was six or seven months ago, I said instantly that means you can fix the way you go through in your draw.

"I knew this was going to happen. It was put to the BWF many times. They ignored the warning signs, thinking it would be fine.”

[Chayady]

Amezed that no one seems interested about this thread anymore after this match-fixing scandal
Maybe most of us just want to forget about the past 'incident', and more concentrated on the current issue, hence the Olympic thread is more interesting.