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  1. #86
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    I cannot agree with your arguments, Twobeer. I don't think the win/lost of LCW has something to do with the protest we have here. There have been too much tricks played by CHN team lately ; like someone said above, it is now a pattern which we can forecast.
    Another point is matches between fellows from the same country are not necessarily a bore. The final in the 08OLY between ZN and XXF was a thriller, for example. (One of the best match I have seen).
    One of the thing that infuriates many, or at least myself, is that if LD (to take him) does not want to play all the way to the final, why does he come to the tourney? He should stay at home and give room to players he beat in the first rounds.

  2. #87
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    Recent case in point: Markis Kido playing at the Japan Open while carrying over a fever from the night before. He and Hendra finally went down in flames to their own countrymen (and Kido's brother, no less!!) but I didn't even see a "retired" next to the scoreline; much less "walkover." And who was the other player who played with the other hand when his/her right hand was injured?

    In the round of 16 at the same tournament, CSC retired halfway through the second game with a foot injury, and JJS/YYS also retired halfway through the second game against the Chinese MD pair because of injury.

    What is common so far is that they all gave it their best right up till the moment they knew they could not go on without major injury risk. They didn't care who was on the other side of the net. And they were not ordered by their coaches to walk away.

    Later in the day of the round of 16, LD spoke to the press about how he was "careless" in the second game against LHI, but there was no mention yet about any possible niggles he may be having. 3 days later, right at the predicted moment, he gives his compatriot a walkover; the toe injury gets bad enough at just the right moment.

    At the same event in the Semi-finals, I did see 2 "walkover" results: Wang Yihan v/s Liu Xin, and Chen Long v/s Lin Dan. How can Chinese team injuries always get unbearable only when the "injured" player has to play against a compatriot?

  3. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    No, It is you who are being silly, if you disregard the dissadvantage to have to play a teammate who reads eachothers games close to 100% and to exclude the possibility of getting two players trough to the next round. I would say currently LD,CL, and CJ are better than ALL players (excluding LCW) that was placed in the top-half in JO.. So you are just being silly if you don't regard that draw as a dissadvantage, seen from a Chineese perspective..
    Bull$hit, it's not a disadvantage, it is the draw playing out following it's normal course. There is nothing about that occurring that is unique to China. Any team that has an enter ranked number 1 and number 4 or ranked 2 and 3 is susceptible to this occurring. Why the hell do we need to see this from a Chinese perspective? It can happen to any team. The only difference is that apparently from the Chinese perspective it is an opportunity to screw with the draw. You've stopped being silly and have now crossed into the realm of stupidity.

    BTW, you always have the option of controlling the outcome of a match.. if you are good enough...
    In the context of this discussion what this this even mean. Now you're just babbling .

    I agree that WOs are not what we fans want... But I think you are exhaggerating how much the "fans" really looks forward to a team "internal" semi anyway
    Never made any comment about fan anticipation of an 'internal' semi final. I said that the best 3 matches in a competition are usually the 2 semi finals and the final. Besides your point is silly. Are you really going to argue that nobody cared to see the number 1 and number 4 player play? Just because they are from the same country? Again, stupid. Your are blinded by flags. I'm a fan of the game not of flags.

    ... To me it seems more like the ones that are "pissed" that LCW didn't win wine about it and focuses on the WO rather than the fact that a) the singles final was great badminton b) CL spent more time on court in JO than LCW despite the WO! c) LCW was not in his greatest form.
    Personally I don't give a crap about LCW winning or losing. And I really wouldn't care if this WO occurred in isolation. But, it hasn't. It's something that occurs AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN. It makes a mockery of the sport.

    As a fan I looked at it this way.. LD and LCW almost always comes up against eachother in all tournaments.. and frankly I thought it was more enjoyable to watch something "different" in this JO final.. So CL vs. LCW was a great final matchup. I would not be so excited to watch a sparring match (how many times do you think LD and CL plays eachother on a day-to-day basis).. They know each other too well, and with no coaching there will be even less "tactical" issues. Quite a boring match up anyway for fans imop.
    Well, as a fan of the sport and not like you, merely a fan of China. I want to see the top two players meet as often as possible. Especially when one player is so dominant in the head to head match up. It's interesting to see if this will be the time LCW can break through and it adds to the drama. There's nothing wrong with others players making the final as long as they earn it.

    Your logic is gooofy.. By forcing LD to play with a minor injury would not raise the quality of the game at all.
    Minor injury... bull$hit. As the saying goes fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on you. But, it's not twice or three time this has happened now is it? It's something that is taking place on a regular basis.

    But I really don't think you believe this is just an injury either. I think you know perfectly well what's going on but I suppose you have a job to do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party

    Out of curiosity, what's your rate?
    Last edited by thunder.tw; 09-29-2011 at 11:42 PM.

  4. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Recent case in point: Markis Kido playing at the Japan Open while carrying over a fever from the night before. He and Hendra finally went down in flames to their own countrymen (and Kido's brother, no less!!) but I didn't even see a "retired" next to the scoreline; much less "walkover." And who was the other player who played with the other hand when his/her right hand was injured?
    Her name is Greysia Polii playing in WD. What a girl, she is surely a true sportswomen, above an athelete.Sportsmen has a dignity, while athelete is just a human doing sport (IMHO)

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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    BTW, you always have the option of controlling the outcome of a match.. if you are good enough...
    Your argument show how low your knowledge about basic sport law.
    In sports the outcome of the match has to come from the skill of the player.
    In basic law it stated that player must give their maximum effort to win the game.
    And i don;t understand what do you mean by controlling the outcome of the game.
    The game/match is decided by the skill of the player. If you are good enough you should win the game (not wo or retired).

  6. #91
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    Twobeer needs three beer now

  7. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chayady View Post
    Her name is Greysia Polii playing in WD. What a girl, she is surely a true sportswomen, above an athelete.Sportsmen has a dignity, while athelete is just a human doing sport (IMHO)
    Very well said, Sir!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chayady View Post
    Your argument show how low your knowledge about basic sport law.
    In sports the outcome of the match has to come from the skill of the player.
    In basic law it stated that player must give their maximum effort to win the game.
    And i don;t understand what do you mean by controlling the outcome of the game.
    The game/match is decided by the skill of the player. If you are good enough you should win the game (not wo or retired).
    There is no "law" that the player must give maximum effort.. I've sse plenty of games from Taufik etc. Where they are not giving their 100%... In most cases the top pros intentionally play well below maximum, especially in earlire rounds to conserver energy against players they can beat eaailly without going max..

    If a player do not want to win it doesn't really make sense for him to compete (morally).. But it ridicilous to even think that a player HAVE to go "all in" all the time..

  9. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    Twobeer needs three beer now
    Its Friday :-) I am going for it

  10. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    Bull$hit, it's not a disadvantage, it is the draw playing out following it's normal course. There is nothing about that occurring that is unique to China. Any team that has an enter ranked number 1 and number 4 or ranked 2 and 3 is susceptible to this occurring. Why the hell do we need to see this from a Chinese perspective? It can happen to any team. The only difference is that apparently from the Chinese perspective it is an opportunity to screw with the draw. You've stopped being silly and have now crossed into the realm of stupidity.
    Sorry.. But, I feel certain that what you say is utterly nonsense! If you let LYB choose in JO draw if he wants CL on the upper LCW half and LD on the lower or both CL and LD on the lower half.. He would tell you he would rather have CL on the opposite half. If you do not think this is true, I think you should read up a bit on the complaints from team China when BWF changed the country separation rules of the draws..

    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    In the context of this discussion what this this even mean. Now you're just babbling .
    ? ookay...

    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    Never made any comment about fan anticipation of an 'internal' semi final. I said that the best 3 matches in a competition are usually the 2 semi finals and the final.
    Usually that is the point of an elimination tournament..

    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    Besides your point is silly. Are you really going to argue that nobody cared to see the number 1 and number 4 player play? Just because they are from the same country? Again, stupid. Your are blinded by flags. I'm a fan of the game not of flags.
    It is sad that you are putting words in my mouth that I do not say, and then call them silly :-) . Of course many people want to watch LD vs. CL. What I said is that that most fans really does not regard that match as the killer match some of the die hard LCW fanatics seem to think it is, and that most probably rather would have WCH vs. CL and Gade Vs. LD as the two semis.. If you are a fan of the game not the flags you do not think a team-match (between friends) are as intersting as a match where players fight someone seen as an adversary and not a team-mate..

    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    Personally I don't give a crap about LCW winning or losing. And I really wouldn't care if this WO occurred in isolation. But, it hasn't. It's something that occurs AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN. It makes a mockery of the sport.

    Well, as a fan of the sport and not like you, merely a fan of China. I want to see the top two players meet as often as possible. Especially when one player is so dominant in the head to head match up. It's interesting to see if this will be the time LCW can break through and it adds to the drama. There's nothing wrong with others players making the final as long as they earn it.
    I think it is ridicilous to say that CL didnt "earn" to be in the final of JO, just because he got a WO. This is just bias talking.. If Gade got injured in the other Semi, and LCW got a WO, he would not have "earned it" as he got an easy final? Your logic is flawed my friend. Are you trying to convince me that LCW would have played so much better if he also got WO in semis, or that CL would be significantly weaker by playing a match with a toe injured LD, I do not find anything that would point to that.

    And if you are a true fan of badminton as you say, you should really appreciate the final game, and the tournament in whole.. But to me it sounds more like you are pissed that China dominates to much, and seeks justification for your disslike of their strength.

    Quote Originally Posted by thunder.tw View Post
    Minor injury... bull$hit. As the saying goes fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on you. But, it's not twice or three time this has happened now is it? It's something that is taking place on a regular basis.

    But I really don't think you believe this is just an injury either. I think you know perfectly well what's going on but I suppose you have a job to do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party

    Out of curiosity, what's your rate?
    Your tone is pretty agressive, and dissrespectful, when we trying to post our views in a civiliced forum.. I hope we all have in common the love for badminton.. I don't think there is a need to drag this down to personal insults and attacks.. I hope we can stick to the issues, instead of imature namecalling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    There is no "law" that the player must give maximum effort.. I've sse plenty of games from Taufik etc. Where they are not giving their 100%... In most cases the top pros intentionally play well below maximum, especially in earlire rounds to conserver energy against players they can beat eaailly without going max..

    If a player do not want to win it doesn't really make sense for him to compete (morally).. But it ridicilous to even think that a player HAVE to go "all in" all the time..
    You are not just have a low knowledge of basic law of sport but also super lazy.
    Here is the Player's code of conduct for you to read and understand. (http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file_download.aspx?id=35803)
    Can you show me which section that govern the maximum effort?

  12. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chayady View Post
    You are not just have a low knowledge of basic law of sport but also super lazy.
    Here is the Player's code of conduct for you to read and understand. (http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file_download.aspx?id=35803)
    Can you show me which section that govern the maximum effort?
    Are you referring to the below?

    4.5 Failure to use best efforts
    Not using one’s best efforts to win a match.

    Not sure if it's a rules book. But looks/sounds really strange (and even silly) to put something like this that can't possibly be enforced in it.

    I'm not sure whether one would conserve more energy by playing his best (thus finishing his match quicker), or not putting in his 100% effort (thus possibly taking him longer to finish). Nevertheless, energy conversation should cross every competitor's mind, if they've any intent to last till the end.

  13. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chayady View Post
    You are not just have a low knowledge of basic law of sport but also super lazy.
    Here is the Player's code of conduct for you to read and understand. (http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file_download.aspx?id=35803)
    Can you show me which section that govern the maximum effort?
    You are right, I was lazy expressing my self.. What I meant was that there are no enforcable rule, and there really is no way to objectively measure "best effort".. Of course BWF and other organisations put these kind of conduct rules int so they can ban players if they can PROOVE there is thrown game etc.. But there is of course no way of enforing a law about "maximum" effort.. How can you proove that Gade made his best effort against LCW?, and that LCW really played his maximum against CL?.. Maybe he was holding back a little because of his injury? Then it would be "match fixing" as he didn't give it the 100% maximum posible, and risk to prolong the injury?Let me ask you this.. if JO this year was a OG final.. Do you still think LCW would have lost the game to CL??
    Last edited by twobeer; 10-01-2011 at 07:13 AM.

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    [QUOTE=twobeer;1765769]Sorry.. But, I feel certain that what you say is utterly nonsense! If you let LYB choose in JO draw if he wants CL on the upper LCW half and LD on the lower or both CL and LD on the lower half.. He would tell you he would rather have CL on the opposite half. If you do not think this is true, I think you should read up a bit on the complaints from team China when BWF changed the country separation rules of the draws..QUOTEl LYB preferred the JO draw to have CL in LCW s half and LD the other half? But that s exactly LYB s desired draw in INA PSS and AE PSS! And LCW championed in both. You sound like you re getting mixed up. Try cutting down to one beer and see if thinking clears up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift
    LYB preferred the JO draw to have CL in LCW s half and LD the other half? But that s exactly LYB s desired draw in INA PSS and AE PSS! And LCW championed in both. You sound like you re getting mixed up. Try cutting down to one beer and see if thinking clears up?
    And your view is that LYB not wanted that draw in INA/AE ??? Because LCW won and the chineese players did not do well in MS??? What is your point? That the LCW wins means LYB didnt want CL on his half before the tournament? I am very confused about your logic..It must be all my beers :-)

    Regardless of beers, but I do recognize the difference in LCWs form in INA/AE as well. Maybe LCWs 21-11, 21-7 against Gade in INA and his 21-18 in the THIRD against Tago this JO, tells you something about his form?
    Last edited by twobeer; 10-01-2011 at 09:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    And your view is that LYB not wanted that draw in INA/AE ??? Because LCW won and the chineese players did not do well in MS??? What is your point? That the LCW wins means LYB didnt want CL on his half before the tournament? I am very confused about your logic..It must be all my beers :-)Regardless of beers, but I do recognize the difference in LCWs form in INA/AE as well. Maybe LCWs 21-11, 21-7 against Gade in INA and his 21-18 in the THIRD against Tago this JO, tells you something about his form?
    Let me take some Chinese tea first.

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    Li Ling Wei is CHN OLY council rep and she does not condone match fixing, but still this goes on. Even CHN fans said CHN does not need to do that, the country overall players are better than the rest of the world. That tells us who has the power in CHN badminton council. LYB is given the political authority to continue doing WO, match fixing, etc. so this status quo will not change. From a fan that actually pays to see an event hoping for a great game but getting a WO instead, how would you feel if you that fan, especially if that fan has to take a flight from another country, pay hotel accommodation and take vacation time to take in that event? Just a thought.

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