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  1. #120
    Regular Member nokh88's Avatar
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    As we type, MJ/XC just conceded a walkover to their team mates after losing the 1st game.

  2. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chayady View Post
    I am sorry if i am insulting you. I just assuming your age base on curiosity and your comments And if you feel my comment insulting, you should also check on your 'tone and comments'.And probably you want to consider to appologize about that, just to show that you are mature.
    An apology immiedeately followed up by another insult :-). Whats your age and profession btw? How close do you follow the players and their medical conditions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nokh88 View Post
    As we type, MJ/XC just conceded a walkover to their team mates after losing the 1st game.
    Did you watch the game? Do you think it was match fixing? Why play to 4-1 if it was not a real injury?

  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    If Taufik feels more like shopping than playing and looses to Tien Chen Chou in the first round in JO, I think it is hard to proove that it was "match fixing".. But I also think it is hard to think that he played at his maximum... So should Taufik be banned, after not playing his maximum this JO?? That is something you should ask yourself.
    By not playing his max, TH has already sentenced himself by letting we all to see. IMO he has nothing to prove anymore to anyone. As he said, he's playing now to enjoy the game that he loves, I dont see any problem with that. I even think that its incredible that TH still has that spirit to keep on playing despite everything and its also incredible that he can play at the top level despite evrything. To me thats shows how good TH is, at his best no one can come close to him, he's the best the world has ever seen. He's done it all and win everything possible (except AE where he went to final twice) so I think its normal and can happen to all of us, we can at some stage of our life look back and be delightfull that we have done something meaningfull and its time to slow down now.

    And so far away from giving WOs and fixing matches the way LYB and LD present the badminton world. What is the moral story that we can share to the children on that?? Sacrifice yourself to the country whichever possible manner.....?? That reminds me of Adolf Hitler.

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    By not playing his max, TH has already sentenced himself by letting we all to see. IMO he has nothing to prove anymore to anyone. As he said, he's playing now to enjoy the game that he loves, I dont see any problem with that. I even think that its incredible that TH still has that spirit to keep on playing despite everything and its also incredible that he can play at the top level despite evrything. To me thats shows how good TH is, at his best no one can come close to him, he's the best the world has ever seen. He's done it all and win everything possible (except AE where he went to final twice) so I think its normal and can happen to all of us, we can at some stage of our life look back and be delightfull that we have done something meaningfull and its time to slow down now.

    And so far away from giving WOs and fixing matches the way LYB and LD present the badminton world. What is the moral story that we can share to the children on that?? Sacrifice yourself to the country whichever possible manner.....?? That reminds me of Adolf Hitler.
    So you are saying it is OK for Taufik just to take it easy and "throw" games, because he is such an outstanding player trough history. But not OK for LD, to also be lazy?

    You and I both agree we dont like the "communist" thinking with the collective over the individual.. But I am openminded to accept that that is the way China is today.. Hopefully they will get more freedom and more focus on the individual rather than the "country", But I dont make such a big deal out of it.. its good and bad, and you can't deny that there are benefits for china with their "team spirit" as well..
    Last edited by twobeer; 10-02-2011 at 06:09 AM.

  6. #125
    Regular Member nokh88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Did you watch the game? Do you think it was match fixing? Why play to 4-1 if it was not a real injury?
    I watched but there are so many that no one knows which is genuine and which is not.

    I SURRENDER....

  7. #126
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs down OMG, Did CHN players give another W/O to teammates again?

    Quote Originally Posted by nokh88 View Post
    As we type, MJ/XC just conceded a walkover to their team mates after losing the 1st game.
    .
    And I commented;

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    OMG, Did CHN players give another W/O to teammates again?

    Did the Indonesian crowd (at this tournament - the 2011 Indonesia GP Gold) booed louder than the Singaporean crowd (at the 2011 Singapore Open) when the W/O was given?

    Who (XC/MJ or HHB/BYX) actually gave the W/O? Perhaps TS didn't even care. They just pressed any random button for any of the CHN pairs.
    As it stands, TS reported;

    He Hanbin/Bao Yixin defeated Xu Chen/Ma Jin [4] 21-19, 1-4 (Retired in 21 minutes).
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 10-02-2011 at 06:11 AM.

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    If you can proove that someone is taking money or gets bonus for throwings a game. Or maybe proove that someone pays someoneelse to loose. The rules alows for actions and bans. But my point is that you cannot really "proove" "maximum effort" if there are no hard evidence of money or communication etc. about the match. And of course WO is generelly not considered match-fixing.
    OK thats the kind of excuse that lazy BWF can use. And thats why I suggest on post #41:

    2. If a player WOed againts his/her opponent from the same country for a total of 4 times in the last 24 months (or 2 times during 9 or 12 months), he/she will served a total banned from participating BWF sanctioned tournament for at least 6 months.

    It is the pattern that happens over and again. One time WO maybe fine, but I lost count how many LD throws WO in the last 24 month or so. Please let me know why, BWF can not enforce some kind of rule or penalty based on this facts and evidence.

  9. #128
    Regular Member nokh88's Avatar
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    After losing the first game, while leading at 4-1 after a smash, Xu Chen pointed at the right side of waist at the back. Asked for the tournament doctor but when the doctor came with the spray, he declined and shooked the umpire's hand.

    Got to leave BC for dinner.

  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    OK thats the kind of excuse that lazy BWF can use. And thats why I suggest on post #41:

    2. If a player WOed againts his/her opponent from the same country for a total of 4 times in the last 24 months (or 2 times during 9 or 12 months), he/she will served a total banned from participating BWF sanctioned tournament for at least 6 months.

    It is the pattern that happens over and again. One time WO maybe fine, but I lost count how many LD throws WO in the last 24 month or so. Please let me know why, BWF can not enforce some kind of rule or penalty based on this facts and evidence.
    The only thing these rules will achive is that playrs will play with injuries, to avoid bans, and matches will be boring.. as they will be played even with a injured, unmotivated, or ill player. I dont see how this would make any changes to anything to the better really...

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    And I commented;



    As it stands, TS reported;

    He Hanbin/Bao Yixin defeated Xu Chen/Ma Jin [4] 21-19, 1-4 (Retired in 21 minutes).
    .
    Hahahahaha......i guess the word "Again" is not such a big deal in CHN these days Chris. We may need ask our grand fathers what is was like before they left mainland.
    Last edited by Yoppy; 10-02-2011 at 06:23 AM.

  12. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1lau View Post
    How do you know this is true? How do you know Lin Dan and his doctor are lying and this is all a conspiracy to let Chen Long beat LCW? My original point is that if you can't show if it Lin Dan or LYB who instigated the walk-over, your just assuming it has the be LYB, but maybe it is Lin Dan? The 2 cases in my opinion will have different consequences. Let say LYB admits and has a recording of himself telling Lin Dan to throw the match then we should sanction LYB, and pressure China to Fire him because he cheated. If Lin Dan admits he didn't want to play and gave a walk-over, i guess you could fine him but is he breaking any rules, cheated? Can we force him to play even if he doesn't want to?


    ?
    BWF should at least investigate by - 1) insisting an independent doctor/s check on the injury. If toe injury, do a scan, have 2 to 3 different doctors check. If back injury,scan. If fever, take temperature. If all the doctors said, fine, no injury what, ehem...... interrogote : Why you say injured when no muscle tear,etc, this is not 1st time. You say pain, why only pain why you play your team mate? What stunt you trying to pull here? Ok, that was a bit too police detective drama type

    Next time another walkover, do it all over again, make it harder for any Oscar winning displays.
    If it was the Lawn Bowling Association, they would have meted out fines long ago, and questioning the player, the opponent, coaches.(refer previous pages involving decision made on intentionally losing, though they played)
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 10-02-2011 at 06:31 AM.

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    So you are saying it is OK for Taufik just to take it easy and "throw" games, because he is such an outstanding player trough history. But not OK for LD, to also be lazy?
    Yes TH turn up gave his best (even if with his lazy laid back style) and go home. No match fixing, no politics, not following anyone's order, not giving preference to any party. Compare that to LD, he hides behind LYB shadow and the big wall to cover his shame and ego.

    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    You and I both agree we dont like the "communist" thinking with the collective over the individual.. But I am openminded to accept that that is the way China is today.. Hopefully they will get more freedom and more focus on the individual rather than the "country", But I dont make such a big deal out of it.. its good and bad, and you can't deny that there are benefits for china with their "team spirit" as well..
    You are too nice Twobeer, you remember how the Berlin wall felt? or how the CCCP crumbled? And Sadam Hussein was thrown out? Was there nothing done from outside?

  14. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    The only thing these rules will achive is that playrs will play with injuries, to avoid bans, and matches will be boring.. as they will be played even with a injured, unmotivated, or ill player. I dont see how this would make any changes to anything to the better really...
    Yes I admit that. It will just change the modus operandi from WO to injury, but at least they will have to perform the drama. And being CHN player you will be required to be a good actor and actress on top of being good badminton players. I will enjoy that comedy, wouldn't you?

  15. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    Hahahahaha......i guess the word "Again" is not such a big deal in CHN these days Chris. We may need ask our grand father what is was like before they left mainland.
    Not only to China but his super die hard fans as well. As team China keeps on giving walkovers, more "spectacular stories/excuses" pops up and every new "stories/excuses" is getting more and more entertaining than the previous ones.... and its coming from the fans of course lol.
    Last edited by flite; 10-02-2011 at 06:38 AM.

  16. #135
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    So you are saying it is OK for Taufik just to take it easy and "throw" games, because he is such an outstanding player trough history. But not OK for LD, to also be lazy?

    You and I both agree we dont like the "communist" thinking with the collective over the individual.. But I am openminded to accept that that is the way China is today.. Hopefully they will get more freedom and more focus on the individual rather than the "country", But I dont make such a big deal out of it.. its good and bad, and you can't deny that there are benefits for china with their "team spirit" as well..
    Step 1: acknowledge that a problem or issue actually does exist.
    Step 2: desire to do something or contribute something towards the resolving of that problem.

    However, you just took one step forward and two steps back!! To "accept the way it is" even if it is patently against rules, spirit, sportsmanship, norms, (even that very country's norms just 2 decades back) is to give legitimacy to the very problem we are discussing!!!

    In your statement "...benefits for China with their team spirit" you could just as well replace "China" with "XYZ" and the statement would still be true. However, have you noticed that no other country has attempted historically, to "institutionalize" such behaviour that way China seems intent on doing? So, is China right in their approach because it justifies their specific ends, and everyone else is wrong and be damned with them?

    There are 2 distinct approaches to this issue:
    1. Condone the arrogance and misdeeds that are being foisted on the game.
    2. Find a way to stop it by creating a system of checks and balances within the framework of rules of the BWF.

    Do you advocate the first approach?

  17. #136
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow If CHN send more participants to tournaments, the Finals will be unpopular to watch

    Quote Originally Posted by flite View Post
    Not only to China but his super die hard fans as well. As team China keeps on giving walkovers, more "spectacular stories/excuses" pops up and every new "stories/excuses" is getting more and more entertaining than the previous ones.... and its coming from the fans of course lol.
    .
    Actually I have heard from die hard fans of China that they are also not interested to watch CHN-vs-CHN matches.

    The suggestion for CHN to send not more than 2 participants to tournaments is good.

    China, being such a strong Badminton-playing nation, will probably cause fewer BCers to follow the Semi-Finals and the Finals events of tournaments if CHN is to send more participants to tournaments.
    .

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