As you can see badminton has a long way to go. http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/01/sport/tennis/tennis-serbia-corruption-savic/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Well, if we were to ban all of China, I think less and less people would watch badminton. That guy is ranked 659th in the world. If the top players were to do it, do you think they will ban the top players? The fans will start to lose interest and their revenue will drop.
Good point. So where is the cut off? How high of ranking do you need in order for it to be ok to cheat? How about other sports then? The USA is the major market for Basket Ball and Base Ball. Should the US be given a free pass to engage in match fixing in those sports when it comes to international competitions? How about Tennis then. The major fan base for Tennis is the US and Europe. Does that make it ok for the US and Europe based players to collude and engage in match fixing to lock out players from other regions? What do you think would happen if China was to receive a series of sanctions from international play? I'm guessing the fans in China would exert pressure on the Chinese badminton association. Frankly, I'd like to see the BWF warn China. A good starting point would be to threaten to disqualify a few of their secondary players (CL, BCL ect) from qualifying for the Olympics. This idea that somehow the game of Badminton needs China is silly.
BWF can officially warn CBA only if the CBA has flouted or broken some rule. BWF can unofficially talk to CBA about changing their approach, but in all likelihood will be met with the equivalent of a blank stare. Realistically in this day and age, which association is going to be willing to take the extreme step of antagonizing one of the most powerful sporting countries in the world? Especially when this same country also happens to have one of the most powerful economic engines? One of the biggest consumer markets? And so on... Besides, the other reality is that China is the most powerful country in world badminton, and that is all due to their focus and diligence. BWF needs to move the goalposts, or tighten the distance between posts. They are the ones who decide what is right and wrong; they make the rules. In another line of work, I have always stressed to stakeholders that the effectiveness of good policies depend on 3 distinct and equally important "DIE-cast" stages: Design, Implementation and Enforcement. It's no different for any association or federation, and their rules.
Yet somehow every other sport in the world is able to cope with match fixing. And, you people should read the thread nowhere in this thread did I mention China. So it's interesting that the minute you talk about match fixing everyone jumps to the conclusion that it is about punishing China rather than fixing the game. It's also telling that the first response to this thread was from a China defender. That tells me that even China's fans know there's an issue. This bull$hit is hilarious, So what? Indonesia and Korea may face economic sanctions if the BWF cracks down on match fixing? Yonex would be barred from exporting to China? I think you need a bit of a reality check. I actually doubt that China's contribution to international badminton really outweighs those of other countries if at all. All the BWF has to do is start penalizing points from WO and we'll see if China really wants to boycott Badminton and imperil their participation in the OG. Badminton will survive just fine without China. China isn't participating in international badminton for any altruistic good of the game. In fact a lot of the benefits on and increase in awareness of the game of badminton are realized by the Chinese. That's exactly right and it's time some people both inside the BWF and outside the BWF remember that. Er, sure..... I guess. I'd also add that such things are also the responsibility of all the stakeholders involved. In any enterprise if you have one stakeholder that behaves irresponsibly, eventually all the stakeholders lose.
a few points. - in one of the earlier case involved, another player Daniel Koellerer was banned with suspicion of match fixing. in those cases there are evidence from the other players involved as he not only fixed his own match, he tried to fix other people's match as well! also there are evidence suggesting that gambling is involved. China (if they did it... ) did it more subtly. many matches are done for player preservation instead for monetary gain. the action is still different and still guilty but if the purpose was gambling monetary gain i think that will make it more guilty. - China's case was between Chinese players. none of them will owe up to it so there are no witness. if they ever do so LYB will make sure they will never be able to step foot in a badminton court again. and i bet they know that too. - While obvious they (often) have tournament doctor diagnosis which are difficult to refute even if BWF try to pursue them. if BWF try to, then they are kinda shooting themselves in the foot as they are saying their own tournament doctors are incompetent (but they probably are...) - any banning will be banning individual players and not the whole CBA as it is the players themselves who are competing and the maximum effort clause applies to individual players only. BWF's issue is then to prove the case, and to me, that itself will be hard. despite what we believe, hard evidence is lacking, and witness are not available. all BWF have to go with is statistical evidence and violations from varying players (despite all of them wear the Chinese flag).
I'm not sure about other sports but tennis. Perhaps, just perhaps, one day badminton can garner the same magnitude of reward money ($1,000,000 U.S.) for a championship, you may see the Chinese players actually play for themselves. One violation of LYB's instruction, and they're out. But who cares?
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/lawn-bowls-team-guilty-of-matchfixing-20100112-m3c6.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/sep/18/bowling-match-rigging-new-zealand http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/02/17/lawn.bowls.gary.lawson/index.html The New Zealand lawn bowling case, no monetary gain/bribe mentioned/involved. Players & coaches vigorously denied it but still players were fined & the captain suspended 6 months. Scenario something like Korea during TC, lose in qualifying so get easier draw next round
Bravo!! There is no doubt really that China's game is in a whole different dimension when you compare it to the level that other countries have been able to achieve. That being said, I recognize that everything goes round in circles, and that some day in the future other countries like INA, Taiwan, MAS, Denmark, even India and Japan will become genuine powerhouses (again, in some cases) but for the moment, world badminton without China would be a bit like flat beer. The truth is, other countries have a LOT to learn (good and bad ) from China about training, techniques, commitment, focus and result-orientation. Agreed. Say it, say it!! "cobalt, I hate to admit, but... you were right... again!"
Sigh, more of the same China China China nonsense. You folks are missing the point. There is a problem with match fixing in the professional game of badminton. Right now China is the main perpetrator because they are in a position that allows them to do so. Don't think for a minute that if Korea had the ability to act in the same manner they wouldn't do it. I don't have time for moral relativity. Cheating is cheating. I don't care if China is fixing matches for gambling purposes or because they are simply a nation of A$$holes. The issue isn't motive. Witnesses LOL some of you folks need to understand that the BWF isn't a court of law. They can act simply based on statistical evidence. Yes, having firmer evidence is more desirable but there is no prosecution and there is no jury trial. Another red herring. The competence of the doctors is a non issue. It is pretty much impossible to disprove a stomach ache or a faked muscle sprain. If you want proof there is more than ample statistical evidence to support the fact that this match fixing is going on. However, all we are talking about now is a continuation of this "Punish China" nonsense. Agreed to a point. Though I'm not even that strongly for banning. The BWF needs to recognize the motive / incentive for nations to engage in this practice and remove those incentives. If that means only allowing one entry per Country per event in competitions such as the OG or the WC then so be it. As per my comment above. The BWF doesn't need 'proof beyond a reasonable doubt' this isn't a civil suit. There is more than sufficient evidence for a ruling. Besides LYB as shot his mouth off about this publicly in past. But again, this isn't really all that constructive as you are merely talking about punishing China. That's not the goal here. The goal (which a lot of people can't seem to grasp here) is preserving the integrity of the game.
Some thoughts - 1. BWF's competence - There have been lots of questions raised as to why BWF hasn't done anything. Are posters here implying they're more competent than people in BWF? Maybe so, but how about writing them with your points, and asking them directly why nothing is done, and publish the response here? You may be able to see from their perspective. 2. On the one hand, you keep saying this is a bigger issue than CHN, on the other hands you guys keep using CHN as an example, even to the extent that someone here pulled out an example of players from another countries, you'd still want to argue about it in disbelief... Implication is CHN is the only very evil, mentally and morally weak nation. If you want to keep the discussion nation-neutral, perhaps keep the country out of the discussion, or use multiple countries as example.
Because other sports association are more strict than BWF, some examples have also been pointed out in the other match fixing thread. What makes you think that BWF have not been questioned on it, after so long, then only little bit of action. Lol, whatever reasons or perspective BWF comes up with, I'll still say -'No excuses, other sports can do it, show some teeth will you.'
And you think people at BWF will find the time, inclination and patience to engage with every BC forumer who sends them emails or questions? Besides, what exactly is wrong with discussing the issue on the forum? As for perspective, you may have a point there; but then again, there are many smart and qualified people here on BC who can provide that perspective as well. I don't think anyone is implying that the issue is only China. I have noticed that you have been conveniently ignoring posts that clearly speak of China as symptomatic or even symbolic of the bigger issue, but you prefer to keep presenting the issue as one of China-bashing; I find this very disturbing. Giving this discussion a sinister twist by using phrases like "Implication is CHN is the only very evil, mentally and morally weak nation" is insulting to the intelligence of a lot of people contributing their thoughts and opinions here, who are more considered with their approach than you obviously want to give them credit for. And anyway, what exactly is wrong with calling a spade a spade?
Fixing to be illegal in Australia in 2012 http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/current/story/539193.html Excerpts: Fixing matches or elements within them will be illegal in Australia in 2012, perhaps as soon as March, as the federal and state governments push ahead with specialised legislation. The legislation, which is set to include penalties of up to 10 years' jail for those found to be involved in match-fixing, was encouraged and informed by cricket administrators, via the Coalition of Major Participation and Professional Sports (COMPPS), following the game's long and pained history of shady dealings between players and illegal bookmakers. State attorneys-general are scheduled to meet in Hobart later this month to discuss the legislation, which was agreed to by the federal and state sports ministers at a Council of Australian Governments meeting in Brisbane June. Support for the legislation on both sides of politics should hasten its speedy progress into law.
Butt gets 2 years 6 months in jail, Asif gets 1 year, Amir six months Richard Sydenham at Southwark Crown Court November 3, 2011 http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan...ry/539063.html Excerpts: Salman Butt, the former Pakistan captain, has been sentenced to two years and six months in jail for his role in the spot-fixing case; Mohammad Asif has got a one-year jail sentence and Mohammad Amir six months. Mazhar Majeed, the players' agent, has been sentenced to two years and eight months. The sentences were handed down in Southwark Crown Court on Thursday morning, bringing the curtains down on one of sport's most sordid and shameful scandals. The sentences are open to appeal and can be reduced to half the term for good behaviour. The incarceration will begin immediately, with the players - who had all come to court with bags - due to be led into prison straight from the courtroom. It seems, in Amir's case, that he will be sent to a young offenders' detention centre instead of jail. ...Butt and Asif were found guilty of conspiracy to cheat and conspiracy to accept corrupt payments by a jury on Tuesday, while Majeed and Amir pleaded guilty at a pre-trial in September. It all followed the now infamous three pre-determined no-balls that were delivered in the Lord's Test match last year, two by Amir and one by Asif, orchestrated by Butt and arranged by Majeed.
1. I don t think it s about BWF incompetence. They are not stupid. The fact they are not doing anything or reluctant to do so hints of maybe officials being on the take. Sure , that s difficult to prove but inaction usually indirectly indicates hard-to-trace, clever corruption.2. It s not that CHN s been targeted . It s just that CHN s pattern of walkover/retired is so obvious that BCFers can even predict with 99% certainty when that s gonna happen and who to give way to who! No BCFer can make that sort of prediction with non-CHN players because there s no pattern. Let me predict what s gonna be an additional pattern. CHN players giving walkover or retired to a preferred non-CHN opponent so she has a better chance of upsetting a stronger non-CHN player, with the resulting winner playing a CHN player after. You see, now CHN has to throw in some examples of giving in to non-CHN opponents. This action has been clearly launched in FO11. So they can prove that they give walkover not just to their own teammates but also to non-teammates. In other words, walkover is going to be the trademark that sets badminton apart from the rest of sports. Happy and proud of that badminton trademark?
Just to say I enjoy reading this thread but it does seem awfully familiar to me, like a deja vu so to speak. Or should I say like a dog chasing his own tail, very fun to watch but it achieves nothing at the end. I recently picked up my racket after a long hibernation of 15years, not only did i discover the greatness in LCW, LD, PG and others, but to my disappointment, the words professionalism and ethics mean little to some players and for some to flaunt the unspoken rules openly with no impunity simply saddens me and so rightly in my own eyes that world of badminton should never deserve the same recognition of other more popular sports. Some even say WSS resembles more of WWF! Does it detract the fun of playing the game ? Absolutely NOT.
Not taking sides, hate all the WO matches but can see some analogous to team cycle racing eg. Tour de France. The end result is individual glory for the winner, but to get there teammates help along the way where is to draft, set the pace etc. A stronger team will aid in the success of the individual. Now would you call this match/stage fixing?
at least they are all sitting on the saddle sweating buckets. Besides, it doesnt stop other cyclists from overtaking them. I think thts call strategy. No?
