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  1. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by laonong View Post
    Where do you find these data? Do you have a rate of WO? I feel the rate of WO for China is not that big considering the large number of chn vs chn meetings. In 2010, 70& of same country meetings are for China. So China should contribute 70% WO if all countries have the same WO rate.
    I just counted the numbers of meets from tournamentsofware, looking at SS, GPG and major events like WC. The WO rate is quite low.. But there are a few that seems "fishy" which I think is LD avoiding a meet with LCW, most likely due to tactical reasons of not wanting to allow him to "spar" too much (LD and LCW already have a huge number of meets (24) ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    maybe you also need statistic how many times CHN VS other country when CHN WO or retired
    then compare it with CHN VS CHN WO or retired

    then we can see, is it true since there are many CHN players in the tournament, they have many times retired or WO if against another country?
    if there are a lot more CHN VS CHN games that is WO or retired, we can conclude somethings wrong with it

    Then you should compare the rates of WO to China - rates of WO to other country for China vs the rates of WO to country A - rates of WO to other country (not A) for Country A provided you have large enough sample size .

    It's not good to focus on just one country. You need do comparison. If the difference of rates are significantly large, you can draw a reasonable conclusion.

  3. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    ...but more the rule than exception when it comes to critical and meaningful matches, it would appear...
    Not really.. I think most WOs. for example from Lin Dan, have been advantageous for the players from other coutries, giving them an easier opponent, and bigger chance of clinching the title. When it comes down to "saving" players for "fitness", I do not really beleive that to play a big part, as I have seldom seen a chineese national team member loose a match due to fitness.

  4. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    I just counted the numbers of meets from tournamentsofware, looking at SS, GPG and major events like WC. The WO rate is quite low.. But there are a few that seems "fishy" which I think is LD avoiding a meet with LCW, most likely due to tactical reasons of not wanting to allow him to "spar" too much (LD and LCW already have a huge number of meets (24) ).
    LCW has reached the level where he does not need more opportunities to spar with LD to improve. Rather, LD tries to avoid meeting LCW because every time LCW beats LD, LCW s confidence over him will grow. That is the advantage LD fears of giving to LCW. PG knows that very well. When LCW goes into a match with confidence, he gets into an unbeatable zone. From now onwards, LD will be prepared to play LCW only when LYB can arrange for a sufficiently vocal CHN crowd to back him up. That s why CHN s eager to host the SS Finals and TC next year.

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Not really.. I think most WOs. for example from Lin Dan, have been advantageous for the players from other coutries, giving them an easier opponent, and bigger chance of clinching the title. When it comes down to "saving" players for "fitness", I do not really beleive that to play a big part, as I have seldom seen a chineese national team member loose a match due to fitness.
    Agree, CHN s advantage has always been their fitness and stamina, that s why the best time to beat them is in the early stages when the stamina factor is less significant as CHN has at least an 80% chance of winning when in finals.I must say your point of LD s WO benefactor effect by offering a lesser opponent to help his real opponent win the title is refreshing. However, this did not happen in JO. It had the opposite effect. (You know why I was so disappointed with LD s WO in MO11? I would have like to see if TH could have taken out either LCW or LD after they had exhausted each other in the SF.) Try not to shoot yourself in the toe. Up the beer or down it? Or how about some Chinese tea.

  6. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    winner in bold
    2006
    ws
    1,xie xing fang vs lu lan,walkover,china master CHINA

    wd
    1,wei yili/zhang yawen vs yang wei/zhang jie wen,walkover,china master CHINA

    2007
    ms
    1,bao chun lai vs chen hong,walkover,malaysia open CHINA
    2,chen yu vs wu yun yong,21-18,5-2,retired,german open CHINA3,bao chun lai vs chen hong,walkover,china open CHINA
    4,lin dan vs chen jin,21-16,10-6,retired,hong kong open CHINA

    ws
    1,zhou mi vs wang chen,walkover,hong kong open HONGKONG

    md
    1,koo/tan vs chong/lee,21-19,retired,korea open MALAYSIA
    2,cai/fu vs xie/guo,walkover,china master CHINA
    3,cai/fu vs xie/guo,walkover,hong kong open CHINA

    wd
    1,zhao tingting/yang wei vs gao ling/zhang jiewen,walkover,singapore open CHINA
    2,gao ling/huang sui vs du jing/yu yang,walkover,china master CHINA

    xd
    1,jiang yanmei/hendra vs li yu jia/hendri,walkover,swiss open SINGAPORE
    2,nova/natsir vs rijal/polli,walkover,world championship INDONESIA
    3,xie zhongbo/zhang yawen vs xu chen/zhaotingting,walkover,china open CHINA
    4,gao ling/zheng bo vs xie zhongbo/zhang yawen,walkover,hongkong open CHINA

    2008
    ms
    1,wen kai vs lin dan,walkover,china open CHINA

    ws
    1,lu lan vs wang yihan,walkover,all england CHINA
    2,wang lin vs zhu jingjing,walkover,singapore open CHINA

    md
    1,lee yongdae/jung jaesung vs cho/han,walkover,german open KOREA
    2,zakry/fairuz vs chong/lee,walkover,singapore open MALAYSIA
    3,cai/fu vs xie/guo,21-17,retired,thailand open CHINA

    wd
    1,gao ling/zhao tingting vs yang wei/zhang jiewen,walkover,korea open CHINA
    2,du jing/yu yang vs gao ling/zhao tingting,walkover,swiss open CHINA

    xd
    1,flandy/vita vs devin/lita,21-12,retired,korea open INDONESIA
    2,gao ling/zheng bo vs xie zhongbo/zhang yawen,16-21,21-6,retired,all england CHINA
    3,he hanbin/yu yang vs gao ling/zheng bo,walkover,swiss open CHINA
    4,outsuka/seutsuna vs kenichi/naito,walkover,japan open JAPAN

    2009
    ms
    1,lin dan vs chen jin,21-12,11-6 retired,all england CHINA

    md
    1,xu/guo vs cai/fu,walkover,china master CHINA
    2,xu/guo vs cai/fu,walkover,china open CHINA

    ws
    1,wang lin vs jiang yanjiao,walkover,asia badminton championship CHINA
    2,wang yihan vs wang xin,walkover,french open CHINA

    wd
    1,ha/kim vs lee/lee,walkover, all england KOREA
    2,mok/samantha vs francess/vanessa,walkover,singapore open SINGAPORE
    3,cheng shu/zhao vs du/yu,walkover,french open CHINA
    4,deng/luo vs xie/zhong,walkover,china open CHINA

    xd
    1,clark/kellog vs andrew/sarah,all england ENGLAND
    2,tao jiaming/ma jin vs chai biao/zhang yawen,21-19,11-6 retired,asia badminton championship CHINA
    3,zheng bo/ma jin vs xu chen/zhao yun lei,5-5 retired,malaysia open CHINA
    4,tao/wang vs xie/zhang,13-21,21-19,8-4 retired,china master CHINA
    5,chen/zhang vs xie/zhang,walkover,china master CHINA
    6,zheng bo/ma jin vs zhang/zhao,walkover,china master CHINA

    2010
    ms
    1,chen long vs bao chunlai,walkover,korea open CHINA
    2,chen long vs lin dan,walkover,china open CHINA

    md
    1,kido/setiawan vs alvent/hendra,walkover,hongkong open INDONESIA

    wd
    1,bao yixin/lu lu vs pan/tian,walkover,china master CHINA
    2,cheng/zhao vs ma/zhong,walkover,china open china

    xd
    1,sudket/salaree vs songphon/kunchala,walkover,french open THAILAND

    2011
    ms
    1,chen long vs lin dan,walkover,malaysia open CHINA
    2,kastens vs lukas,walkover,swiss open GERMAN
    3,chen jin vs lin dan,walkover,singapore open CHINA
    4,chen long vs lin dan,walkover,japan open CHINA
    5,ramdam vs daren,23-21,16-10,retired,indonesia open MALAYSIA

    ws
    1,jiang yan jiao vs liu xin,walkover,malaysia open CHINA
    2,wang shixian vs liu xin,walkover,all england CHINA
    3,wang xin vs li xuerui,walkover,all england CHINA
    4,wang shixian vs wang lin,12-8,retired,singapore open CHINA
    5,wang shixian vs jiang yanjiao,21-16,8-5,retired,china master CHINA
    6,wang yihan vs liu xin,walkover,japan open CHINA
    md
    1,bona/ahsan vs markus/prima,21-19,retired,indonesia open INDONESIA

    wd
    1,kim/jung vs kim/ha,7-10,retired,china master CHINA
    2,xia/tang vs wang/yu,21-19,retired,china master CHINA

    xd
    1,natsir/tantowi vs rijal/debby,21-17,15-9,retired,india open INDONESIA
    2,zhao/zhang vs xu/ma,21-17,retired,world championship CHINA
    3,ma/xu vs zhang/zhao,21-18,1-1,retired,china master CHINA
    4,he/bao vs xu/ma,21-19,1-1,retired,indonesia open CHINA
    Good find limsy!!

    How about the rate of China fixing/throwaway matches pre LYB era? It should be a good way to tell since the Chinese were already as dominant during those genuine matches days. It should indicates whether its about the frequency of CHN vs CHN matches that resulted in the high percentage of your findings or otherwise.

    I remember the legendary Yang Yang and ZJH matches went to full length at every encounter and both players gives no quarter. It was the same story to those popular Indonesian players as well.

  7. #41
    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
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    Walkover to give ranking points is a given this year. Before that, I'm not so sure but sometimes it does help to boost the younger player's confidence or give them more experience.

  8. #42
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    Arrow Walkovers to give 'aided' ranking points

    Quote Originally Posted by undeadshot View Post
    Walkover to give ranking points is a given this year. Before that, I'm not so sure but sometimes it does help to boost the younger player's confidence or give them more experience.
    .
    True; Walkover to give ranking points could be useful for younger players.

    However, when these younger players get these 'aided' points, at the back of their mind, they might not think that they have worked hard for these points.
    .

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Disagree... We wish that Badminton be a sport with players always performing their best whenever they play.

    How can Badminton be a good sport to follow when our tournament players are sometimes 'stage-acting'?

    Even in our BC PAW Games, PAWers are annoyed with this 'stage-acting'.
    .
    With all the stageacting in soccer/fotball in the penalty zone.. that sport seems still to thrive..

  10. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    LCW has reached the level where he does not need more opportunities to spar with LD to improve. Rather, LD tries to avoid meeting LCW because every time LCW beats LD, LCW s confidence over him will grow. That is the advantage LD fears of giving to LCW. PG knows that very well. When LCW goes into a match with confidence, he gets into an unbeatable zone. From now onwards, LD will be prepared to play LCW only when LYB can arrange for a sufficiently vocal CHN crowd to back him up. That s why CHN s eager to host the SS Finals and TC next year.
    Lots of talk.. I think he went into this WC in an "unbeatable" "zone" after crushing each opponent and LD having to work more, but honestly LD was still that fraction better at playing the game...

  11. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Lots of talk.. I think he went into this WC in an "unbeatable" "zone" after crushing each opponent and LD having to work more, but honestly LD was still that fraction better at playing the game...
    Well, LCW has made tremendous progress. WC is supposed to be a major and he has never gone past QF. This time he reached the final and almost won it. LCW s a 'slow winner'. He progresses in steps to clinch titles. See his pattern of progress in AE. QF?, then SF, then Final, then victor, then unquestionable victor. He plods along because he gets no assistance but he finally reaches his destination, sooner or later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    Well, LCW has made tremendous progress. WC is supposed to be a major and he has never gone past QF. This time he reached the final and almost won it. LCW s a 'slow winner'. He progresses in steps to clinch titles. See his pattern of progress in AE. QF?, then SF, then Final, then victor, then unquestionable victor. He plods along because he gets no assistance but he finally reaches his destination, sooner or later.
    He will for sure.. He may or may not clinch the OG next year.. But if he don't, he will have the opportunity to collect those big-medals after LD retires.. The only danger would be a fast improving CL, WZM or Victor Axelsen. But most likely he have all the time to collect his missing trophies after LD has put his racket on the shelf.

  13. #47
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    since i was in my last month of last semester in my college
    so i will create another list as soon as i could
    amount of matches between china ms/ws against other country and the amount of walkover
    amount of matches between china ws/ws against own country and the amount of walkover
    if i free,will add on double department
    but i feel that the % will be ugly for china

  14. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    With all the stageacting in soccer/fotball in the penalty zone.. that sport seems still to thrive..
    COULDN'T AGREED MORE!! The one and only logical posting from you that is true about China. Thumbs up boy.

    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    since i was in my last month of last semester in my college
    so i will create another list as soon as i could
    amount of matches between china ms/ws against other country and the amount of walkover
    amount of matches between china ws/ws against own country and the amount of walkover
    if i free,will add on double department
    but i feel that the % will be ugly for china
    I have the same feeling as you do.

  15. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    since i was in my last month of last semester in my college
    so i will create another list as soon as i could
    amount of matches between china ms/ws against other country and the amount of walkover
    amount of matches between china ws/ws against own country and the amount of walkover
    if i free,will add on double department
    but i feel that the % will be ugly for china
    Is it ugly with more WOs against your friends that you play on a daily basis? Would you try to fight for a win with pain just to beat your friend, robbing him/her of the winning chance and then maybe have to withdraw due to the injury later in the tournament anyway??

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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Is it ugly with more WOs against your friends that you play on a daily basis? Would you try to fight for a win with pain just to beat your friend, robbing him/her of the winning chance and then maybe have to withdraw due to the injury later in the tournament anyway??
    would and did u purposely score low mark in exam in order to made ur friend rank higher than u?
    if yes,then ur point is valid
    if no,think again

    p/s:it is quite noble and idealistic,did u practice it in ur life?
    Last edited by limsy; 10-06-2011 at 02:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    would and did u purposely score low mark in exam in order to made ur friend rank higher than u?
    if yes,then ur point is valid
    if no,think again
    Think again Limsy :-) My result on the exam does not stop my friend from getting a great score. Eliminating him from cup play will eliminate him from scoring higher (my win at his expense)... very different things.

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