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  1. #137
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    Default correction,thanks twobeer

    wang zm against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 32 5
    retired or walkover 0 1
    % 0% 16.67%


    lin dan against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 40 7
    retired or walkover 1 3
    % 2.44% 30%



    du pengyu against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 28 4
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% %



    bao chunlai against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 22 3
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% 0%



    chen jin against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 41 5
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% 0%



    chen long against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 43 8
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% 0%



    total against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 206 14
    retired or walkover 1 4
    % 0.48% 22.22%



    for note,i take out chen jin meet with zhou wen long and lin dan against wen kai since they dont participate in international tournament regularly

    jiang yanjiao against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 23 9
    retired or walkover 1 2
    % 4.167% 18.18%


    li xuerui against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 22 5
    retired or walkover 0 1
    % 0% 16.67%



    liu xin against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 23 4
    retired or walkover 1 3
    % 4.167% 42.86%



    wang shixian against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 29 9
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% 0%



    wang lin against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 13 0
    retired or walkover 1 1
    % 7.14% 100%



    wang xin against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 32 11
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% 0%



    wang yi han against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 36 9
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% 0%



    total against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 178 20
    retired or walkover 3 7
    % 1.66% 25.9%



    i take out other china ws who are not in the list above,and exclude team event
    again we can see a significant different between two

    this is after the correction,thanks to twobeer


    china player only walkover/retired 4 times in 384 matches(against non china)1.04%
    china player walkover/retired 11 times in 45 matches(against own teammate)24.44%
    Last edited by limsy; 11-01-2011 at 10:49 AM.

  2. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by laonong View Post
    I do not think you understand statistics. Grab some basic statistic books or google
    Btw, since you mentioned about doing the stats & we already mention the way to search for it(with examples), perhaps you can draw up the one for other countries. I mean, since you asked about it in the 1st place. It's from the BWF ranking site

  3. #139
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    this is after the correction, thanks to twobeer

    china player only walkover/retired 4 times in 384 matches(against non china)1.04%
    china player walkover/retired 11 times in 45 matches(against own teammate)24.44%
    .
    Thanks limsy for redoing the calculations.

    Even without the calculations, we can see that roughly 1 in 4 of their CHN-vs-CHN matches would be a walkover and/or retired match.

    This is not good for people who bought expensive tickets and going to the venue to watch them play. Refund of money should be given.
    .

  4. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    i take out other china ws who are not in the list above,and exclude team event
    again we can see a significant different between two

    this is after the correction,thanks to twobeer


    china player only walkover/retired 4 times in 384 matches(against non china)1.04%
    china player walkover/retired 11 times in 45 matches(against own teammate)24.44%
    Thanks for the effort to correct your statistics.. It is interesting, but I think it should be pointed out that a sampling based on 45 matches is quite small.. And the real interestiting question is if this is different from china-vs-china compared to other same-vs-same country matchups.. The other countries same-vs-same statistics are so much smaller so statistical sampling gets even smaller.

    As I have posted earlier, it would really suprise me if matches between training-partners didn't differ statistically in length, number of WOs etc. compared to matchups between non training-partners, so the interesting question is if it would be any different statistics if DEN, KOR, MAS, INA or other country had 45 SS tournament meetings between their players who trained together on a daily basis. This one is not easy to answer.. But I think that is really the interesting question..

  5. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by laonong View Post
    I do not think you understand statistics. Grab some basic statistic books or google
    I expected this from you. If not what else can you say some more right?

    Btw, there are a lot of people actually waiting for your set of statistic since you sounded like an "expert" in this field.

    Expectations are high though!!

  6. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    wang zm against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 32 5
    retired or walkover 0 1
    % 0% 16.67%




    lin dan against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 40 7
    retired or walkover 1 3
    % 2.44% 30%





    du pengyu against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 28 4
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% %





    bao chunlai against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 22 3
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% 0%





    chen jin against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 41 5
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% 0%





    chen long against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 43 8
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% 0%





    total against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 206 14
    retired or walkover 1 4
    % 0.48% 22.22%





    for note,i take out chen jin meet with zhou wen long and lin dan against wen kai since they dont participate in international tournament regularly

    jiang yanjiao against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 23 9
    retired or walkover 1 2
    % 4.167% 18.18%




    li xuerui against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 22 5
    retired or walkover 0 1
    % 0% 16.67%





    liu xin against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 23 4
    retired or walkover 1 3
    % 4.167% 42.86%





    wang shixian against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 29 9
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% 0%





    wang lin against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 13 0
    retired or walkover 1 1
    % 7.14% 100%





    wang xin against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 32 11
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% 0%





    wang yi han against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 36 9
    retired or walkover 0 0
    % 0% 0%





    total against other country player against own country player
    play until finish 178 20
    retired or walkover 3 7
    % 1.66% 25.9%





    i take out other china ws who are not in the list above,and exclude team event
    again we can see a significant different between two

    this is after the correction,thanks to twobeer


    china player only walkover/retired 4 times in 384 matches(against non china)1.04%
    china player walkover/retired 11 times in 45 matches(against own teammate)24.44%
    OMG

    This post is really synonymous with the thread title RECORD of walkovers.........

  7. #143
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    Default more complete statistics for 2011:

    Some added statistics:

    Collected data from the following 2011 BWF tournaments:

    Statistics taken from tournament/software following tournaments 2011
    Code:
    RSL Cyprus International 2011
    SANTO DOMINGO OPEN 2011
    Yonex Badminton French Open 2011
    Ethiopia Int 2011
    Swiss International 2011
    Syria International Series 2011
    Yonex Denmark Open
    DJARUM SIRNAS REG. VIII SULAWESI OPEN 2011
    XVI Pan Am Games, Guadalajara 2011
    Turkiye Open 2011 
    Yonex Dutch Open 2011
    Bulgarian International 2011
    III Colombia Internacional 2011
    Yonex Czech International 2011
    Bankaltim Indonesia Open GP Gold 2011
    XXVI Brazil International Badminton Cup 2011
    YONEX Open Japan
    Yonex Belgian International 2011
    Guatemala International Challenge 2011
    Li Ning China Masters
    Kharkov International 2011
    Yonex Chinese Taipei Open
    Zimbabwe Internationals 2011
    Carebaco International 2011
    Victor Slovak Open 2011
    Namibia Internationals 2011
    Yonex Sunrise Vietnam Grand Prix Open 2011
    BWF WORLD SENIOR CHAMPIONSHIPS 2011
    2011 Yonex Canada Open
    VICTOR INDONESIA INTERNATIONAL CHALLENGE 2011
    2011 Yonex OCBC US Open Grand Prix Gold
    White Nights 2011
    Russian Open Grand Prix 2011
    Kenya International Series 2011
    DJARUM Indonesia Open 
    2011 Counties Manukau International
    Mauritius International 2011
    LI NING Singapore Open 
    2011 Li-Ning Sunlight Altona International
    Lithuanian International 2011
    SCG Thailand Open Grand Prix Gold 2011
    Maldives International Badminton Challenge 2011
    2011 Double Star BWF Sudirman Cup
    Spanish Open 2011
    International Open Morocco 2011
    Slovenia International 2011
    Fiji Open 2011
    FZ Forza Denmark International 
    46 Portuguese International Championships
    Smiling Fish International Series 2011
    YONEX-SUNRISE India Open 
    Yonex Dutch International 2011
    Badminton Asia Championships 2011
    Badminton Asia Championships
    XVI PERU INTERNATIONAL 2011 BADMINTON CHAMPIONSHIPS
    Osaka International Challenge 2011
    YONEX Australian Open Grand Prix Gold 2011
    Croatian International 2011
    Li-Ning New Zealand International Challenge 2011
    Ciputra Hanoi Vietnam Challenge 2011
    35th Yonex Polish International Championships 2011 
    XII Torneo Giraldilla 2011
    Uganda International Series 2011
    BANUINVEST INTERNATIONAL 2011
    WILSON Swiss Open Grand Prix Gold 2011
    YONEX All England Open 
    YONEX German Open Grand Prix Gold 2011
    Iran Fajr International Challenge 2011
    VICTOR Korea Open
    Swedish International Stockholm 2011 
    PROTON Malaysia Open 
    Yonex Estonian International 2011
    CHN-CHN Matches
    Played to finish 76
    WO or retire 15
    % WOs per "buddy"-match 16,48%

    CHN-OTHER NATION Matches
    WO given to opponents 19
    WO from opponents 7

    Cheers,
    Twobeer
    Last edited by twobeer; 11-01-2011 at 03:15 PM.

  8. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by laonong View Post
    I do not know where to find the data. since you know how to find LD's data, I thought it might be easy for you to find the complete data. My impression based on this forum that CHN should have higher rate of WO but since you said you want to complain to BWF, you better to have more data to support your claim. Otherwise your complain would just be ignored. If you have complete data, I can analyze it for you.
    You know very well completing the data is very tedious work and time consuming. How about you do your part and contribute for other countries or do for China like limsy but for the year 2010? Let us have the privilege to be enlightened on your statistics expertise. Please share your gift with us.

  9. #145
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    Here's another thought, and I admit I don't know for 100% if I'm on the right track, but it kinda feels right...

    I would think that the record of W/O's become more pertinent for the period starting May 1, 2011 onwards. If we collate data and the percentage figures from say, May 1 to present, and then compare them to the same type of data for say the preceding 2 years, might that not give us an indication of:

    1. Whether W/O are in fact significantly increased in the qualifying period
    2. Whether countries that stand to gain by W/O from a strategic/tactical viewpoint have in fact been involved in W/O in disproportionate amount to other countries that have nothing to gain by this.

    Again, I'm not the expert here, so I won't comment on stuff like sample size and all that. But this is just a thought...

    Edit: and before anyone asks me, the answer is "NO!! I cannot help with the data! It's all Greek to me!! "

  10. #146
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    Actually, I am wondering why are we talking about sampling and sample size when limsy s analysis is not an effort to extrapolate and predict CHN s future walkover behaviour. In social science surveys or medical research, they survey sample sizes to project for the population, to save cost while achieving acceptable levels of accuracy. Then they make predictions based on various confidence levels. But in limsy s exercise, the population ( players ) is small and sampling is irrelevant because limsy is analyzing the actual population! By the way, I am no statistics expert; I barely passed my mandatory statistics for my psychology degree.

  11. #147
    Regular Member extremenanopowe's Avatar
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    We have a schrink pple. Aha who is mentally unstable reading this? Can wr recommend lyb as candidate. Must wrap him up like hannibal. Lol

  12. #148
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
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    It's a good thing no one thought of quoting Disraeli to limsy --- he'd have thrown up and run away by now!!

  13. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by extremenanopowe View Post
    We have a schrink pple. Aha who is mentally unstable reading this? Can wr recommend lyb as candidate. Must wrap him up like hannibal. Lol
    Huh? Limsy s a psychology major. There are many types of psychology specialty nowadays. Didn t you see the latest type in the James Bond spoof, " Johnny English Reborn"? LYB would have made a brilliant psychologist, the way he manages his team s behaviour. William Shakespeare s probably the ultimate born psychologist, the way he had observed and dramatized human behaviour.

  14. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Thanks for the effort to correct your statistics.. It is interesting, but I think it should be pointed out that a sampling based on 45 matches is quite small.. And the real interestiting question is if this is different from china-vs-china compared to other same-vs-same country matchups.. The other countries same-vs-same statistics are so much smaller so statistical sampling gets even smaller.

    As I have posted earlier, it would really suprise me if matches between training-partners didn't differ statistically in length, number of WOs etc. compared to matchups between non training-partners, so the interesting question is if it would be any different statistics if DEN, KOR, MAS, INA or other country had 45 SS tournament meetings between their players who trained together on a daily basis. This one is not easy to answer.. But I think that is really the interesting question..
    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    Actually, I am wondering why are we talking about sampling and sample size when limsy s analysis is not an effort to extrapolate and predict CHN s future walkover behaviour. In social science surveys or medical research, they survey sample sizes to project for the population, to save cost while achieving acceptable levels of accuracy. Then they make predictions based on various confidence levels. But in limsy s exercise, the population ( players ) is small and sampling is irrelevant because limsy is analyzing the actual population! By the way, I am no statistics expert; I barely passed my mandatory statistics for my psychology degree.
    me too barely passed my statistic and research methods
    anyway,i wont argue or explain since auntie pj already tried to explain
    and
    people tend to ignore something they dont want to believe/see
    or
    only focus on something they want to believe/see

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    It's a good thing no one thought of quoting Disraeli to limsy --- he'd have thrown up and run away by now!!
    why i should runaway when i done nothing wrong?
    even lin dan bravely show up,get boo-ed and eventually win the match because wanted to save face

  15. #151
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    I hope BWF refers to this thread though.. So many useful statistics for their reference in case they are still sleeping or acting like nothing serious happens..

  16. #152
    Regular Member AlanY's Avatar
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    Default

    posted on the other thread on a similar subject;

    It’s scientifically proven that the importance of continuity in all competitive sports, particularly racket sports such as badminton. For the 5 days badminton tournament with a break within is equivalent to give away 5-10 points per game to your next opponent after the break.

    Although there is no official statement as why China’s head coach risking to violate the rules laid down by the BWF, as the rules are not allow players to give unfair advantage i.e. a 10 points handicap, the underlined motives are fairly obvious for the badminton world.

    It’s hard to deny that for most major tournaments China won most if not all the titles, Thomas Cup, Sudirman Cup, World Championship, Asian Games and All England just to name a few . China’s head coach is under constant pressure from other associations/coaches to ease down a bit and let them have a minor part of it. Thus occasionally China withdrawn the whole team from a tournament or individual matches between team mates to create a ‘false’ level playing field for the others.

    This is also a good training ground for the younger members of the team as well. Knowing that you’re giving away 5-10 points to your opponents and still won by a good margin, particularly to the ‘world No 1’ must do your confident no harm.

    So, unless the others catch up to the standard set by the best team of the world real soon as the Korean doubles do, China’s head coach will always have to strike the balance between to please the badminton world and to cross swords with BWF for the good of badminton.

    Just my two pennies.

  17. #153
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanY View Post
    posted on the other thread on a similar subject;

    ............

    Although there is no official statement as why China’s head coach risking to violate the rules laid down by the BWF, as the rules are not allow players to give unfair advantage i.e. a 10 points handicap, the underlined motives are fairly obvious for the badminton world.

    It’s hard to deny that for most major tournaments China won most if not all the titles, Thomas Cup, Sudirman Cup, World Championship, Asian Games and All England just to name a few . China’s head coach is under constant pressure from other associations/coaches to ease down a bit and let them have a minor part of it. Thus occasionally China withdrawn the whole team from a tournament or individual matches between team mates to create a ‘false’ level playing field for the others.

    ............

    So, unless the others catch up to the standard set by the best team of the world real soon as the Korean doubles do, China’s head coach will always have to strike the balance between to please the badminton world and to cross swords with BWF for the good of badminton.

    Just my two pennies.
    .
    I think you missed the point of this thread. We are hoping to watch good matches between highly-skilled Chinese teammates against each other in tournaments outside China.

    We want to watch good matches.

    If CHN players were to give walkovers to non-CHN players of lower-skills, we won't mind. Why? Because these matches would be one-sided matches and not as interesting.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 11-02-2011 at 12:32 PM.

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