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Thread: Determining Junior Ranking
09-24-2011, 04:19 PM #1
Determining Junior Ranking
I'm curious as to how other countries determine a Junior's National or World ranking. This is especially when the tournaments may be organized in age-groups. If a junior always stay within the same age group (unrealistic) there won't be an issue. But how do organizations allocate ranking points when a player grows into an older age group. Those ranking points could be used for seeding in a tournament.
09-24-2011, 04:42 PM #2
The way the junior rankings work here are ridculous, it's actually a joke!
Juniors are expected to play in more than one age group, if they are good enough, in order to gain ranking points at different age groups, if you don't compete at more than one age group then the chances are you won't be seeded in one of the age groups.
Still it's really fixed the rankings for juniors here, not much point even competing...
09-24-2011, 04:51 PM #3
All tournaments are graded, so winning an under 15 might get 1000 points, semi of an under 17 might be 1000 with winner 1500 etc. The players at top of age group are likely be playing older group (should be for development anyway). Works ok generally
09-25-2011, 03:42 AM #4
US is starting their own Junior Ranking system now, and they rank certain tournaments as more points than other tournaments. The higher the age group the more points you earn (i.e. U19 earns 12000 points for 1st, while U17 earns 8200 for 1st). Once you move up an age group, your score tags along with you. If you play more than 1 age group in a tournament, you get points for the lower age category.
I believe BWF is starting to do an international Jr. Ranking System?
09-25-2011, 04:01 AM #5
the older -> higher point system does make some sense.
the older the age group, presumably has higher level of competition. thus they are worth more point.
a younger player managed to win a higher age tournament should be deserve to get more point.
09-25-2011, 10:57 AM #6
Also, in order for a younger player to have a ranking when he transitions into an older age group, he can carry his points earned in younger age group into the older age group, as CantSmashThat described. There's a fixed equivalence across two adjacent age groups. E.g. a 1st place in U13 is "pegged" at 5-6th place in U15.
Before I proceed any further to color your view, what do people think of the above two observations?
09-25-2011, 01:46 PM #7
Players who are in the top 20 in say u13 should be playing a few u15 tournaments. Players who are in top 3 U13 should be playing maybe 3 U13 torunaments and the majority U15. England system for juniors is quite good, players are split into 3 grades for events bronze, silver, gold. WInning a bronze you would upgrade to silver. A good player would have earned a silver or gold int he age group above before they entered the age group. Players go down a grade if not when they go up an age group
10-01-2011, 03:43 AM #8
Is it common in UK or other places to have juniors to play in two age groups in the same event within the same tournament (e.g. U15 and U17 at the same time)? And if so, how do you keep track of his score for that event in that tournament? E.g. do you keep 2 separate scores, or just 1 score with some kind of formula to figure out the way to combine the two numbers?
10-01-2011, 03:37 PM #9
Yes it is common to play two age groups, within the one tournament. Even some I have seen play 6 events, but sometimes the tournament is split over two days, so there is a bit of rest. There are separate draws for each age group.
At the end all ranking points gained count towards ranking in the lower age group. But only the points gained from the higher age group will count in the higher age group.
E.g. An U15 player, plays U15 and U17.
All of His/Her ranking points gained from the tournament will go towards the U15 ranking, but only the U17 points gained will go towards his U17 ranking.
10-01-2011, 04:45 PM #10
@LD rules!, which country is that?
And what if a junior only plays his own age group, and then when he eventually moves to the next age group (e.g. U15 to U17, as he grows up to 15 year old? Would he be able to get a seed for his first matches in U17, assuming he's a very good player previously in U15?
10-01-2011, 05:03 PM #11
No, a very good junior (for example U15) if they were to play only U15, when they turned 15 and have to move up, if they had played no tournaments in the previous season at U17, then they would start with 0 points, and no seeding despite how good they may be. Even a newbie who has played one tournament at U17 and lost 21-0 21-0, would be considered for a seeding position before this U15 player in this hypothetical situation.
It's not like how with BwF, in doubles, pairs can get notional points, which can help them get seedings if they are a new pair. (e.g. Lee YD/Ha JE)
10-02-2011, 03:01 PM #12
So is there a minimum number of tournaments a junior must play to get a GOOD ranking? And how much traveling (esp. out of town, expensive ones) does one need to do in order to comply with this minimum?
10-02-2011, 03:14 PM #13
I gave up on the long distance ones nowadays.
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