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    Default Head light/head heavy physics?

    Lets say I have a head heavy 4U, then I add some weight to the handle, would it then become 2U head light?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSSSNT View Post
    Lets say I have a head heavy 4U, then I add some weight to the handle, would it then become 2U head light?
    it might be become a 2U, and if you check the BP, the BP shift a lot (becomes as if a head light racket).
    however when you swing it, it still feels like a head heavy racket

    the only thing you can do to make a head heavy racket to become head light is somehow to reduce the weight on the head (which is not possible)
    if you want to make head light racket to head heavy, you need to add weight on the frame (using lead tape), not reducing weight on the handle..

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    As Avenger says, the head mass is much more important than handle mass. So don't focus too much on bp as it doesn't reflect swing weight as much as head mass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    it might be become a 2U, and if you check the BP, the BP shift a lot (becomes as if a head light racket).
    however when you swing it, it still feels like a head heavy racket

    the only thing you can do to make a head heavy racket to become head light is somehow to reduce the weight on the head (which is not possible)
    if you want to make head light racket to head heavy, you need to add weight on the frame (using lead tape), not reducing weight on the handle..
    If you're right then...adding strings will play a lot.

    CMIIW but I think string weight is about 6 grams. That's around 8% of what a racket weigh added to the head!

    So a racket that is even balance will become head heavy after strung and a head light racket will be even balance or even head heavy. So the manufacturer claim of even balance or headlight isn't true anymore after it's strung.

    Yes or no?

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    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Ummm, as far as I know, most people play with their rackets already strung. But most strings on the racket are about 3.1-4.0g depending on thickness. And most 3U rackets head mass are around 38-44g unstrung. So yes, the strings can account for 10% of the head mass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Ummm, as far as I know, most people play with their rackets already strung. But most strings on the racket are about 3.1-4.0g depending on thickness. And most 3U rackets head mass are around 38-44g unstrung. So yes, the strings can account for 10% of the head mass.
    But manufacturers put out their bp unstrung right? So the point is then nearly all rackets become head heavy after strung since the string itself add a significant amount of weight.

    Correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSSSNT View Post
    If you're right then...adding strings will play a lot.

    CMIIW but I think string weight is about 6 grams. That's around 8% of what a racket weigh added to the head!

    So a racket that is even balance will become head heavy after strung and a head light racket will be even balance or even head heavy. So the manufacturer claim of even balance or headlight isn't true anymore after it's strung.

    Yes or no?
    no it is not
    you missed something important here

    like visor said, every will play with string on it right? except you play without string.. then the differences would be noticeable with and without string.
    every racket must have string on it, so it doesn't really matter whether the string 6 gram, or so, every racket would gain same weight
    also, string will not add too much weight on the head, the differences is not noticeable

    for example:
    A and B use 2 identical racket with identical setup
    A use 0.70 mm gauge string
    B use 0.62 mm gauge string

    will both racket play differently?
    the answer is not really unless they are pretty sensitive with less than 1 gram changes in their racket

    manufacturers already set their standard on their racket spec. it is DRY spec
    without string and with original grip still on
    why? because it is hard to know the racket "wet" weight as each person setup would be different

    for example (this is just an illustration, not real life example)
    my Tpro: 295 mm
    add string: 300mm
    full setup: 298mm (with thin overgrip)

    another racket, such as armortec 900 P has BP: 305 mm
    add string it becomes 310 mm
    full setup: 300 mm (with thick towel grip

    or something like that

    remember the standard is DRY weight
    Last edited by Avenger; 10-09-2011 at 03:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    no it is not
    you missed something important here

    like visor said, every will play with string on it right? except you play without string.. then the differences would be noticeable with and without string.
    every racket must have string on it, so it doesn't really matter whether the string 6 gram, or so, every racket would gain same weight
    also, string will not add too much weight on the head, the differences is not noticeable

    for example:
    A and B use 2 identical racket with identical setup
    A use 0.70 mm gauge string
    B use 0.62 mm gauge string

    will both racket play differently?
    the answer is not really unless they are pretty sensitive with less than 1 gram changes in their racket

    manufacturers already set their standard on their racket spec. it is DRY spec
    without string and with original grip still on
    why? because it is hard to know the racket "wet" weight as each person setup would be different

    for example (this is just an illustration, not real life example)
    my Tpro: 295 mm
    add string: 300mm
    full setup: 298mm (with thin overgrip)

    another racket, such as armortec 900 P has BP: 305 mm
    add string it becomes 310 mm
    full setup: 300 mm (with thick towel grip

    or something like that

    remember the standard is DRY weight
    But you said head weight is what matters?

    Well since string add about 10% to the head weight, then shouldn't it matter in moving all even balanced rackets and some headlight rackets to head heavy when played?

    Wouldn't this then, make almost all rackets actually head heavy when played, it's just a matter of how head heavy it is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSSSNT View Post
    But you said head weight is what matters?

    Well since string add about 10% to the head weight, then shouldn't it matter in moving all even balanced rackets and some headlight rackets to head heavy when played?

    Wouldn't this then, make almost all rackets actually head heavy when played, it's just a matter of how head heavy it is?
    everything is relative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSSSNT View Post
    But you said head weight is what matters?

    Well since string add about 10% to the head weight, then shouldn't it matter in moving all even balanced rackets and some headlight rackets to head heavy when played?

    Wouldn't this then, make almost all rackets actually head heavy when played, it's just a matter of how head heavy it is?
    look, let me say this blatantly
    how could you tell if a racket head heavy or head light?
    how head light a racket could be?

    you want a head light racket?
    maybe you could try a racket using straw (with plastic handle) and string from cotton string (to make clothes)
    it would be a pretty light and head light racket
    but does it playable?

    how about, a racket from aluminium, it would be pretty strong, and is it head light? it is head light compared to a stone racket
    like kwun said, everything is relative


    let me say this again
    since there no sets of rules on how head light a racket could be (pretty ambiguous)
    they set standard rules using dry weight (as this is the most neutral position)
    275mm for being head light, 285 for even balance, 295+ for being head heavy
    why? because usually 275mm is the lowest they could achieve without making the racket unplayable (lack of material on frame or shaft, cannot be strung high enough, and they racket also able to produce power to hit the shuttlecock)

    the standard is dry weight
    this is the main point: again, like kwun said, everything is relative. in "wet" weight condition, of course the standard would go up (but no one wants to define this as it would be vary from one person to another)
    for example:
    the definition of head light racket in "wet" condition would be 280 = head light. 292 = even balance, 305 = head heavy

    do you want something head light? might as well play without a racket since you will gained no weight, as you are saying, it doesn't really matter how many weight you gained, the head would be heavier (let's compare it with "without holding a racket") it's just matter of you have it heavy or less heavy (which is also pretty ambiguous definition)

    lol.. ambiguous answer for ambiguous question? (sorry can't resist it..)
    Last edited by Avenger; 10-09-2011 at 04:48 PM.

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    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    ^^^ And don't even get us started on how different brands / companies have different definitions for head heavy vs head light or shaft flexy vs stiff.

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    Ah you guys might be right.

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    i think in the end..

    what matters most is the person like the racket as it is..

    head heavy or even balance or head light...b it add.grip..or strings..weight.....

    is it that important?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    no it is not
    you missed something important here

    like visor said, every will play with string on it right? except you play without string.. then the differences would be noticeable with and without string.
    every racket must have string on it, so it doesn't really matter whether the string 6 gram, or so, every racket would gain same weight
    also, string will not add too much weight on the head, the differences is not noticeable

    for example:
    A and B use 2 identical racket with identical setup
    A use 0.70 mm gauge string
    B use 0.62 mm gauge string

    will both racket play differently?
    the answer is not really unless they are pretty sensitive with less than 1 gram changes in their racket

    manufacturers already set their standard on their racket spec. it is DRY spec
    without string and with original grip still on
    why? because it is hard to know the racket "wet" weight as each person setup would be different

    for example (this is just an illustration, not real life example)
    my Tpro: 295 mm
    add string: 300mm
    full setup: 298mm (with thin overgrip)

    another racket, such as armortec 900 P has BP: 305 mm
    add string it becomes 310 mm
    full setup: 300 mm (with thick towel grip

    or something like that

    remember the standard is DRY weight
    Very helpful, thank you!

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    Regular Member Tadashi's Avatar
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    There actually are publicly available methods for weighting rackets, some Canadians from Ottawa did some research on this. The interesting thing is: in order to calculate what constitute a weighted head despite different racket weights (like 85g versus 100g), they include the upper arm, the forearm as well as the hand in their calculations. So their centre of body mass is not the balance point of the racket, but the "balance point" from shoulder to racket head!

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