User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 18 to 30 of 30
  1. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Woodland
    Posts
    202
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ...hence, MP 99 is much more highly regarded than MP 100. Maybe the colour yellow is just better than red in certain respect?

  2. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Woodland
    Posts
    202
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Dunlop had come up with a "Biomimetic" racquet that also featured "AFG" or Anti-Friction Grommet design that minimizes string contact with the grommets. However, I believe this is only being used in their tennis racquets. Read below:

    "The 3Dom (rhymes with freedom) grommet system is a set of green pods made of material that is significantly softer than regular grommet material. The soft pods encase Anti-Friction Grommets (see below) and perform a similar function to cartilage surrounding joints; they provide padding while at the same time allowing greater freedom of movement for the strings. By allowing the strings to move in and out and left and right, more recoil is created giving shots additional power. The 3Dom system also serves a dual purpose of dampening any string vibration, making the racket easier on your arm at impact.

    "Anti-Friction Grommets (AFG) make up the second part of the 700’s grommet system. AFG allows the strings greater freedom of movement by minimizing their contact points with the grommet itself. This Biomimetic concept is based on the sandfish skink, an animal which has the ability to ‘swim’ through sand due to the formation of its miniature scales. Similarly, the AFG grommet system comprises a series of small ridges in each grommet designed so the string comes into contact with the ridges, rather than the entire grommet bed as in other rackets. By solely touching the ridges, string/grommet contact is significantly reduced, resulting in more string movement and greater power and spin for the player."
    Are you a designer for (not from, but for) Dunlop?

    AFG and 3Dom are like peas in the pod (with all the pun intentions intended).

  3. #20
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Arrakis
    Posts
    8,351
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MilGauss View Post
    Are you a designer for (not from, but for) Dunlop?

    AFG and 3Dom are like peas in the pod (with all the pun intentions intended).
    those guys wouldn't let me near their front door if they had the sense!
    BTW, "AFG concept is based on the sandfish skink, an animal which has the ability etc etc..."
    Sandfish... Sandtrout.... Arrakis... Winner!

  4. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Woodland
    Posts
    202
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    those guys wouldn't let me near their front door if they had the sense!
    BTW, "AFG concept is based on the sandfish skink, an animal which has the ability etc etc..."
    Sandfish... Sandtrout.... Arrakis... Winner!
    ...Brooktrout and Arrakis are great IT resource solutions providers. May I add Appalachian too... Maybe these electronics techies can help with the skink hole grommet issue?

  5. #22
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Arrakis
    Posts
    8,351
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MilGauss View Post
    ...Brooktrout and Arrakis are great IT resource solutions providers. May I add Appalachian too... Maybe these electronics techies can help with the skink hole grommet issue?
    Wow!! That's some truly impressive "skiddy" thinking!!

    I thought though, the MP99 used the same round archways system as the 100. and the MP99 was one of their all-time stars.

    As Blitzzards pointed out, YY used the Ultra-HMG for the MPs; but they have also got something they call Super HMG on the ARC10. Just wondering, why didn't they use the round archways on the ARC10? OTOH, I believe the ARC10 itself is not very rugged...

  6. #23
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Arrakis
    Posts
    8,351
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Panda Power has just recently begun shipping the Precision Pro to customers and distributors worldwide.

    Panda aka Dinkalot has taken what appears at first glance to be several steps backward with the grommet design he has implemented. His frame design has no grooved channels for the grommets to fit snugly into, to create an "aerodynamic" profile that most manufacturers seek to promote. But everyone knows Panda is a very canny thinker.

    The feedback and responses have been nothing but extremely positive. Almost to a man, every player has remarked that it appears to have provided greater lateral stability, and of course, allowed the frame itself to retain it's full, natural strength. The protruding grommets do not appear to create any extra drag, either.

    Is the past the future? Until we find a new frame material that makes titamium feel like putty, could this be the way to go?

  7. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    387
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think grommets can be way better than the current ones but not economical. I sometimes fish, and my most advanced (expensive) rods contain SIC (silicon Carbide) eyes. This is to have a smoother surface to prevent damage to the line, and also less resistance because of the smooth surface so the line would less be overheated (reduce life expectancy). The are so hard, you'll never have to replace them. I do think if this would be used as grommets, they would serve their purpose, but the eyes for my rod were average 30 Euro each. Only needed 10 till 13 of them. Converted in grommets needed for a racket, I would not invest in a company starting to make them...

  8. #25
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    GMT-04:00
    Posts
    1,436
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Panda Power has just recently begun shipping the Precision Pro to customers and distributors worldwide.

    Panda aka Dinkalot has taken what appears at first glance to be several steps backward with the grommet design he has implemented. His frame design has no grooved channels for the grommets to fit snugly into, to create an "aerodynamic" profile that most manufacturers seek to promote. But everyone knows Panda is a very canny thinker.

    The feedback and responses have been nothing but extremely positive. Almost to a man, every player has remarked that it appears to have provided greater lateral stability, and of course, allowed the frame itself to retain it's full, natural strength. The protruding grommets do not appear to create any extra drag, either.

    Is the past the future? Until we find a new frame material that makes titamium feel like putty, could this be the way to go?
    The main reason why the grooves exist on all other racquets is simply, to prevent the top strings from being exposed to wear and tear from friction and contact from the racquet frame hitting the floor. I would not be surprised if the Precision Pro racquets are prone to string snapping at the top of the frame.

    In fact, most racquets can actually have the same frame strength if they have the same thickness as the Precision Pro frame, but having the grommet grooves on top of that will make the frame structure too thick, and thus no longer aerodynamic.

  9. #26
    Regular Member Maklike Tier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,128
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
    Panda Power has just recently begun shipping the Precision Pro to customers and distributors worldwide.

    Panda aka Dinkalot has taken what appears at first glance to be several steps backward with the grommet design he has implemented. His frame design has no grooved channels for the grommets to fit snugly into, to create an "aerodynamic" profile that most manufacturers seek to promote. But everyone knows Panda is a very canny thinker.

    The feedback and responses have been nothing but extremely positive. Almost to a man, every player has remarked that it appears to have provided greater lateral stability, and of course, allowed the frame itself to retain it's full, natural strength. The protruding grommets do not appear to create any extra drag, either.

    Is the past the future? Until we find a new frame material that makes titamium feel like putty, could this be the way to go?
    Sycophant.

    Firstly, Kason has produced non-facetted/grooved frames for ages - instead favouring an extended external grommet strip to protect the strings - and it works fairly well.

    However, you have to realise that what we are talking about when we talk about racket design is a system. Nothing can really be evaluated in isolation and then left at that.

    Using Kason as an example again, the C7 and TSF500 don't have any grooves in their frames, yet aren't particularly stiff torsionally. The Victor Meteors on the other hand, do have grooves but also have a woven head, and are incredibly torsionally stable.

    This is why you have to look at every aspect of frame design - shape, materials, components - and make them work as a whole.

    You also can't say that something protruding from a surface doesn't produce any extra drag. That's just plain wrong. You increase the frontal area, you increase drag - even if it's an aerodynamic shape - which grommets aren't.

    I think what the Precision Pro shows, is that it's possible to produce a nice playing racket without resorting to trickery. Established technology really isn't that bad. I mean, one of the prototypes I've been playing a lot with recently is a very standard smaller ISO head racket with an oval profile head and a box section T-Joint, 74 holes, made from HM Carbon with no woven or any trickery except an in-moulded carbon t-joint.

  10. #27
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Arrakis
    Posts
    8,351
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maklike Tier View Post
    Sycophant. .
    Ouch! Send me your final prototype or your first production run piece, and I'll write a review for you! Not that Dan has done the above, but you'll know if I'm a fair critic or not, first-hand!

    Firstly, Kason has produced non-facetted/grooved frames for ages - instead favouring an extended external grommet strip to protect the strings - and it works fairly well.
    I plead ignorance.
    However, you have to realise that what we are talking about when we talk about racket design is a system. Nothing can really be evaluated in isolation and then left at that.
    True. I had actually wanted to discuss technology and design as applicable to grommets, as an integral part of the better playing experience.
    Using Kason as an example again, the C7 and TSF500 don't have any grooves in their frames, yet aren't particularly stiff torsionally. The Victor Meteors on the other hand, do have grooves but also have a woven head, and are incredibly torsionally stable.
    And yet, the new YY racquets do not have "woven" but are not exactly unstable.... which makes me wonder all over again, why YY (and LN) have shied away from the woven thing... can't be just to differentiate their brand.
    This is why you have to look at every aspect of frame design - shape, materials, components - and make them work as a whole..
    Yes, but in the real world of non-LD or LCW clones, how much exactly does it matter? As you've pointed out, a racquet without the bells and whistles will still play as well for most of us natives.
    You also can't say that something protruding from a surface doesn't produce any extra drag. That's just plain wrong. You increase the frontal area, you increase drag - even if it's an aerodynamic shape - which grommets aren't.
    A Harley or a Triumph Tigress (or Norton Dominator - yum!) would beg to differ, somewhat. Not that I'd play with a 2U, ever!
    I think what the Precision Pro shows, is that it's possible to produce a nice playing racket without resorting to trickery. Established technology really isn't that bad. I mean, one of the prototypes I've been playing a lot with recently is a very standard smaller ISO head racket with an oval profile head and a box section T-Joint, 74 holes, made from HM Carbon with no woven or any trickery except an in-moulded carbon t-joint.
    Agreed!

  11. #28
    Regular Member Maklike Tier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,128
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I actually do think that YY and LN not using woven carbon or other types of carbon materials but instead focussing on other materials IS a marketing technique. Much cheaper rackets use woven carbon so there is a danger that if they 'resorted' to it, it would be seen as a retrograde step. Instead, the Big Two focus on 'Graphene' or whatever else they dream up to stuff in their rackets

    The big debate in my mind (still) is whether stronger materials actually bring much to the table. I think some manufacturers have really focussed on the quality of their processes so that good old-fashioned HM unidirectional carbon - arguably the best 'feeling' material out there - can be 'all that it can be'.

    But hey, we're getting off-topic, aren't we!
    I actually think that grommets are there primarily to stop strings sawing through the clearcoat and compromising the structural integrity of the racket. I still don't know if it's best to have strings that can freely move, or even how much strings do move once a racket is strung. I also don't know if a stringers' requirement for what constitutes a good grommet is the same as a players.

    I do know however that I don't want ANY Teflon of PTFE in my rackets ANYWHERE. That stuff is an environmental nightmare.

  12. #29
    Moderator cobalt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Arrakis
    Posts
    8,351
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ahem!!!

    http://www.yonex.com/sports/badminto...ric-z-force-2/

    "Tungsten infused grommets maximize the contact time between shuttle and string. This combined with the TRI-VOLTAGE SYSTEM ensure that the frame flexes in a controlled way, holding the shuttle on the string bed for longer for maximum transfer of power to the shuttle."

  13. #30
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    8,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    84 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Oh great, if I wanted the bird to hold longer on the stringbed, I'd just as well lower the tension or use softer strings.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Similar Threads

  1. Proace Grommet-free Frame design
    By winstonchan in forum Badminton Rackets / Equipment
    Replies: 9
    : 06-15-2007, 12:02 AM
  2. The Materials of a Racket
    By Blurry D in forum Racket Recommendation / Comparison
    Replies: 8
    : 02-09-2007, 12:04 PM
  3. Grommet defect? Grommet falling out....
    By Neosakai in forum Badminton Rackets / Equipment
    Replies: 31
    : 06-15-2005, 09:19 PM
  4. Info about different racquet materials
    By Stalker in forum Badminton Rackets / Equipment
    Replies: 0
    : 10-27-2002, 07:48 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •