Joaquim Fischer's double action serve illegal?

**visor** · 10-30-2011, 08:11 PM

Since he and his partner have been winning more tournaments recently (DO and FO), I've been watching more of his matches recently. He has an incredible intensity and desire when he plays that is lacking in so many other pro players.

However, I've noticed that his serves have a double action every single time. The racket face will go forwards by 1-2 inches and then he'll pull it back to restart another forward motion, this time hitting the bird. I'm quite surprised that he hasn't been penalized on this by the service judges. Any one else notice this?

**demolidor** · 10-30-2011, 09:18 PM

But there is no backmotion first ... hence the serve hsan't started yet?

**visor** · 10-30-2011, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by demolidor

But there is no backmotion first ... hence the serve hsan't started yet?

9.1.7 the movement of the server's racket shall continue forwards from the start of the service (Law 9.2) until the service is delivered (Law 9.3);

9.2 Once the players are ready for the service, the first forward movement of the server's racket head shall be the start of the service.

No, the first forward motion is deemed the start of service according to 9.2, so by 9.1.7 his serve is illegal as it does not continue forwards the first time but goes back and then goes forward a second time.

**demolidor** · 10-30-2011, 09:57 PM

9.1 In a correct service:
9.1.1 neither side shall cause undue delay to the delivery of the service once the server and the
receiver are ready for the service. On completion of the backward movement of server’s
racket head, any delay in the start of the service (Law 9.2), shall be considered to be an
undue delay;

But I guess that's just for the set position .. still downloading so I can watch it in slowmo

... only saw the one point from the qf match. No one seems to ever complain about it so I guess they don't see it as the start of the serve yet?

**demolidor** · 10-30-2011, 10:20 PM

* ---- * * ---- *

**Heong** · 10-31-2011, 04:22 AM

interesting

to be honest I haven't noticed prior reading this post and I've been watching so many of his matches lately

**visor** · 10-31-2011, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Heong

interestingto be honest I haven't noticed prior reading this post and I've been watching so many of his matches lately

Yeah, I didn't really notice it initially, but I can tell his action is kinda jerky, not smooth continuous forward. On slow mo replays that BWF shows sometimes after a good rally, you can see the double action more obviously.

**amleto** · 10-31-2011, 01:50 PM

Lin Dan used to do this as well. He has slightly changed his action now, though.

It appears as though the judges take the stance that if it is consistent, and not intended to cause diception, then a fault will not be called. Even though technically, it (a double-action serve) is.

**visor** · 10-31-2011, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by amleto

Lin Dan used to do this as well. He has slightly changed his action now, though.It appears as though the judges take the stance that if it is consistent, and not intended to cause diception, then a fault will not be called. Even though technically, it (a double-action serve) is.

Come to think of it, that's right! LD did that all the time. Good point.

**madbad** · 10-31-2011, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by visor

Come to think of it, that's right! LD did that all the time. Good point.

In fact there was one video clip showing he did a triple-action service

**twobeer** · 10-31-2011, 04:09 PM

The interesting thing was if opponents start complaining about it pointing it out to the service judge.. If he have to change I am sure it would mess wth him :-) .. Perhaps they are saving it as a secret weapon for OG

**visor** · 10-31-2011, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by madbad

In fact there was one video clip showing he did a triple-action service

Perhaps he was just nervous serving to LCW?

**moomoo** · 10-31-2011, 10:10 PM

can link the clip for us to see?

**madbad** · 10-31-2011, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by moomoo

can link the clip for us to see?

JF or LD? If LD, it was on a BC thread somewhere. Maybe some resourceful detective can dig it up.

**Tactim** · 11-25-2011, 09:20 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XDAr...&feature=feedu

At 2:09:39 you can easily see his double action serve. Actually didn't think about this thread until I was watching the replays. He definitely have an illegal serve and it's too bad he doesn't get called out on it. If I was playing I would definitely get thrown off by the serve for the first game or so.

**twobeer** · 11-26-2011, 08:16 AM

seems illegal to me...

**visor** · 11-26-2011, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by twobeer

The interesting thing was if opponents start complaining about it pointing it out to the service judge.. If he have to change I am sure it would mess wth him :-) .. Perhaps they are saving it as a secret weapon for OG

A very good observation. This could be his Achilles heel if he doesn't correct it.