Clones vs Fake Rackets

Discussion in 'Badminton Rackets / Equipment' started by david14700, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. david14700

    david14700 Regular Member

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    I'm getting annoyed by a recent trend, certainly in Europe, of companies AND private individuals selling rackets and describing them as clones.

    A few years ago I started seeing a lot of rackets from China being sold as "Grade A" or "Grade B" clones. They were basically described as good quality copies of the original Yonex rackets they were copied from.

    The general public seem to have taken this up and are selling rackets which they also describe as clones.

    Leaving aside the issue of misleading buyers because some of these ads have the word 'clone' buried in the middle where buyers may miss it, and leaving aside IP infringement involving copyright, registered design rights and passing off as these account for a very small fraction of real life cases, there is a very definite and clear line between fakes and clones.

    The key question to ask is: Does the copy racket bear any Yonex trade marks? If so, then it is counterfeit.

    Victor or Apacs may make rackets that look nearly identical to the Voltric 80 (I'm just giving an example, I don't know if they actually do) but as long as these rackets only copy the styling, and don't have the word YONEX or VOLTRIC 80 anywhere on them, then they are clones, and therefore legal.

    The rackets being sold as Grade A or B clones have YONEX and other Yonex trade marks plastered all over them. They are clearly NOT clones.

    I'm concerned that there appears to be a growing acceptance in the marketplace that such 'clones' are either legal or quasi-legal and therefore acceptable.

    I'm sure the vast majority of BC'ers know the difference between fakes and clones, and wouldn't both with fakes anyway, but the majority of people out there don't.
     
  2. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    I hear what you're saying, but unless places like ebay will tighten up their grip on counterfeit racquets there is little else that can be done. Yonex needs to develop a way of checking counterfeit products easily and copy proof. Polarised hologram stickers can be copied one day in my opinion.
     
  3. bogensaebel

    bogensaebel Regular Member

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    as long as people can't match up their budget and yonex's prices, there should forever demands for the fakes, clones or whatever...these clones/fakes manufacturer knew about these 'holes' and therefore took advantage of it..people want, we supply..it's not all about people being bedimmed by the originality of the fakes..it's all about demand and supply to counter the current high prices of the original rackets mostly by mid- and low-incomers which is the highest population on earth :)..
    if you look from the perspective of rich countries with high currency values such as US, central europes, UK etc then you have arguments but look from poorer countries like asian..
    for example VT80..in Germany it cost mostly €140 but it Malaysia it would cost RM600..look into amount...we have quite similar amount of monthly earnings under respective currencies..the percentage of expenditure per earning would halt such purchase ...the world is full of unfairness...that's where the demand come from..
     
    #3 bogensaebel, Nov 15, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2011
  4. Avenger

    Avenger Regular Member

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    IMO, this is how I see clones and fakes

    clone: they are trying to clone the market leader, they use different brand, maybe something similar such as paint job. however the quality might be different
    the main point is, clone has their own BRAND (such as APACS) to protect
    they will not gonna let the buyer down. they have QC at least


    fakes: they use leader's brand name and sell it by saying it is genuine
    the key point is, they have NOTHING to protect, they could make bad quality product and get away with it


    so, which one is better? clone or fakes (in my term)
    I would say clone is better

    P.S: what do you mean victor made similar paint job? IMO it is very different (80 in MX80? it's because they use 80 hole grommets system, not copying VT80 which has no meaning)
    I must say apacs really copying yonex (most of their products are copy catting Yonex except lurid, tantrum, and lethal)
     
  5. b.leung

    b.leung Regular Member

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    Didn't MX80 come out before Voltrics 80?

    Billing yonex as the "original" and the other as a "clone" when two companies bear similar designs is unfair as no one knows the truth behind the design and manufacturing of these two rackets.
    For all we know, the similarities in design can be coincidental

    (Leibniz and Newton for calculus, neither copied the other but both came up with the foundation for calculus simultaneously)

    Having said that, I would like to mentioned that I am a huge yonex fan to mitigate any backlash/accusations that I'm on the haterade.

    Back on topic though.
    There will always be people buying clones, just as there will always be people downloading music.
    It will just come down to education and being fair.
    I've never owned a fake racket before though I have been tempted to buy one though.
    In the end, I realized all I was doing was stealing money away from the large companies that put a lot of money into R&D (and marketing).
    The same companies that sponsor the best players we love to watch (so they can make a living).
    The same companies that sponsor the tournaments that we enjoy watching/attending

    BTW, there are plenty of wonderful rackets that fits small budgets
     
  6. Andy05

    Andy05 Regular Member

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    Some clone manufacturers have their own R&D and warranties. My Apacs Edgesabre is allowed up to 35lbs.
    Fakes are just cheap copies of a good companies racquet and they use the same paint jobs and logos and are normally sold as scams to make money illegally.
    I have no issue with clones, however, fakes! If you want to look like you own the top of the range racquet in front of your friends then you should save up and buy off a reputable dealer, 90% of VT80s/N90-II/whatever when they are priced at £100, instead of £140+, are fakes and for the quality it's worth saving extra for the real thing.
     
  7. Maklike Tier

    Maklike Tier Regular Member

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    People are still getting ripped off paying 80% of the price for a Li-Ning 'Clone'.

    I really think this is a case of caveat emptor, wherein if you're dumb enough not to do your research, not to ask questions, and your greed for a cracking deal overides your common sense, then I'm pretty firmly in the 'suck sh*t' camp.

    Now in terms of definition, I think the word 'clone' is also misleading, and frankly, completely incorrect use of the term. In fact, every racket is a clone. The proper terms/phrases would be 'homage' or just simply 'influenced by' or 'inspired by'. Even then there are many rackets which have a similar theme and are obviously 'influenced' by the original, but that's just a mechanism of the market, in the same way the new Megane looks like a Corolla. For want of a better term, I guess 'Clone' however may have to suffice.

    'Fake' is pretty unambiguous - a direct copy, whether passing itself off as an original or not.

    As a designer I detest 'clone' companies almost as much as fakers - I'll never EVER buy an APACS because I don't believe companies should circumvent IP laws and 'liberate' IP and build up market share based on the hard work of others. I don't give a **** what R&D they have (clearly a good legal department) or warranty - either put your own ideas out there or f off.

    The harder examples are companies like Fleet. The quality of their rackets are amazing, and although the design of the actual racket bares little resemblance, the one I saw in a shop yesterday was clearly influenced by the MX80/VT80 with a white 'T' section and silver/gold/red highlights.

    The Victor Meteors and certain Fleet models come out of the same mould, too, so do you discount them both solely on using non-propreitary moulds, even though both companies do clearly have proprietary designs in their other ranges?

    It's all a pretty big grey area, but the part that isn't is the difference between a 'Clone' and a 'Fake'. Also, personally, I think buying into the 'Classes' of fakes thing that some online sellers are promoting is adding legitimacy to the concept and should be frowned upon. A Fake is a fake is a fake, and me personally, how can you take a fraudulent online sellers word for the quality of something thats a fake? Clearly, very few scruples are involved.

    At the end of the day though, do your research, err on the side of caution, and 'buyer beware'!
     
  8. Andy05

    Andy05 Regular Member

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    Oh yeah I agree with what you are saying. I didn't mean that I think Apacs copying Yonex is the best idea. Had they only copied Yonex and sold copies I would call them fakes. But their own range of racquets are of a good quality themselves and if they were to fade their Yonex copies out and focus only on their own stuff it would make them a much better company.
    It's unfortunate but starting out this way seems too much of a lure for smaller manufacturers.
     
  9. Maklike Tier

    Maklike Tier Regular Member

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    For sure. It's one of the ugly sides of capitalism but at the end of the day, i think you can start a company with an innovative idea and have that as your drawcard, or you can hope to get volume and traction by copying others.

    As a general rule, I'm a fan of the former.
     
  10. a|extan

    a|extan Regular Member

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    hmm
    i guess.. its a world that when there is a demand.... there will be a supply..

    i am not supporting fakes... but...

    seriously... u cant stop..them.....

    as every1 wants to make money.from the..easiest...way...n fastest...way...
     
  11. moomoo

    moomoo Regular Member

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    well, there are both reputable cloner and fakers.

    obviously you havent seen APACS NANO9900 vs PONEX NanoSpeed 9900 (no misspelling there). both uses similar names to sort of jump on yonex's bandwagon. however to the unknown buyer you're just thinking which one should i buy? ....

    over here you can get both clones for a fraction of the price and a higher end price for fakes. they're certified from A-D, and there also genuine certified "fakes" which are identical to the real ones, just "rejected" due to overproduction.

    For the sake of discussion, would you pay RM899 (RM600 after discount) or a RM350 for a genuine certified "fake" VT80 that you can return if you're not happy within 2 weeks?

    Even if its A certified fakes that costs RM100 for VT80, the performance is about 85% and you'd need to be pretty good to notice the difference.

    Disclaimer: I do not support the manufacturing of fake rackets nor have I bought them.
     
  12. Maklike Tier

    Maklike Tier Regular Member

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    "well, there are both reputable cloner and fakers."

    Did you re-read that after you typed it? Lol

    "over here you can get both clones for a fraction of the price and a higher end price for fakes. they're certified from A-D, and there also genuine certified "fakes" which are identical to the real ones, just "rejected" due to overproduction. "

    Rubbish. You're being lied to. No big company would allow a manufacturer to sell off 'surplus' stock. They order the stock, the stock gets delivered, end of story. None of the big brands would ever allow this to happen. It's unethical and downright illegal.
     
    #12 Maklike Tier, Nov 16, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2011
  13. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    I agree, and I honestly do not think that moomoo knows how to distinguish between a genuine Yonex racquet from a fake or a clone racquet.

    Just as Maklike Tier said, Pure Rubbish. 'Nuff said.
     
  14. moomoo

    moomoo Regular Member

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    well everybody has their own opinion, and i'm sorry for the confusion and i'll rewrite the following line:

    "well, there are both reputable cloner and fakers." as

    well, there are
    a) reputable cloners and
    b) fakers (people just buy or make rackets are repaint them).

    reputable cloners: eg. APACS, they even advertise like so: NANO9900 similar feel to ARC10, and why don't you try to differentiate your MX80 with APACS Tweet 8000 international, very similar paint job, its slight heavy head, stiff, swings faster than a BS10 costs 1/2 of a MX80.

    and obviously you guys havent tried the fake rackets or can concieve how greedy some people can be. (both sellers and buyers)
     
  15. Maklike Tier

    Maklike Tier Regular Member

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    I'm sorry.........APACS 'Tweet'?


    Bwahaha!
     
  16. Blitzzards

    Blitzzards Regular Member

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    I have tried a counterfeit (grade A, I was told) Yonex NS9900 before and to be honest, it is impossible to compare the performance of the genuine thing compared to this wannabe. The feel is too starkly different to even be reminiscent of the genuine racquet and it is too impractical to even say that a grade A racquet can be of ANY PERCENTAGE similar to or of the performance the genuine one. (That is similar to saying that YOU yourself have 1/3 the abilities/game quality of LCW. Does that make any sense at all?)

    In fact the counterfeit racquets feel more like a lousily made copy of the low end brand name racquets such as the [made in China] Yonex Isometric 2X VF and so on. These counterfeits are hardly even worth 1/4 the price of the genuine racquet they are supposed to be copying.
     

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