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  1. #52
    Regular Member kelana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neowing View Post
    LCW lost to LD again. Bloody hell. This is my suggestion to win OG2012

    (1) LCW must remember his main aim is OG2012. Forget about No 1 ranking for now please and get more rest. You are not young anymore. REMEMBER TO peak at right time.

    (2) Focus on training new tricks + NEVER SHOW your TRUE potential in competition till OG2012.

    (3) Improve your smash. I can see even Chen Long's smash is better than yours. Try to get some tips or two from smash pro such as former Indonesian players in 90s or counterparts around you.

    (4) Study LD like a text book, from HK Open 2011, as he is playing more seriously from that moment. Try to understand how he take the game.

    (5) Improve stamina cos u always lose steam by 3rd set.

    This is only my opinion lar, never give up but to win LD, u must strategize. GOOD LUCK.
    I must say that this is a very impressive FIRST-TIME posting! I didn't see anything comparable or close to this kind from any first-time poster here previously. And your chosen nick 'neowing' is also quite intriguing

    well, welcome to board!

  2. #53
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    Why is it so hard to recognize that LD is better player than LCW?

    To LCW's credit, he narrowed the giant gap at the Beijing Olympics to a miniscule margin at the London World Championship. But the reality is that LD is simply the better player.

    LD is one of the greatest players in the history of badminton. After '05 WC where TH reigned, it has been LD's era. Anyone, including LCW, can beat LD only as an upset. The best LCW and the others can hope for is making sure themselves being at their best when some sort of lapse happens with LD. If LD is at his best, there is no training or strategy that can beat LD.

    Therefore, bettering LD is a hopeless goal that can only lead to pressure to fail and bring psychological scars. Accepting the inferior position and being the best they can be to capture the right moment is the right way to score a victory off LD.

  3. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by neowing View Post
    LCW lost to LD again. Bloody hell. This is my suggestion to win OG2012

    (1) LCW must remember his main aim is OG2012. Forget about No 1 ranking for now please and get more rest. You are not young anymore. REMEMBER TO peak at right time.

    (2) Focus on training new tricks + NEVER SHOW your TRUE potential in competition till OG2012.

    (3) Improve your smash. I can see even Chen Long's smash is better than yours. Try to get some tips or two from smash pro such as former Indonesian players in 90s or counterparts around you.

    (4) Study LD like a text book, from HK Open 2011, as he is playing more seriously from that moment. Try to understand how he take the game.

    (5) Improve stamina cos u always lose steam by 3rd set.

    This is only my opinion lar, never give up but to win LD, u must strategize. GOOD LUCK.
    Couldn't have said it better ...
    I think LCW gets tired because he is using a lot of energy to be fast in the court. So if a person can counter and make him move around more, then it is a goner like what LD does now.

    Win or lose, he will always be my favourite player.

  4. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelana View Post
    I must say that this is a very impressive FIRST-TIME posting! I didn't see anything comparable or close to this kind from any first-time poster here previously. And your chosen nick 'neowing' is also quite intriguing

    well, welcome to board!
    Hi. Been a silent follower in this forum for a while. I hope LCW doesn'nt lose the faith yet. All in all, he had played/trained hard but now must do it the smart way.

  5. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedShuttle View Post
    Why is it so hard to recognize that LD is better player than LCW?To LCW's credit, he narrowed the giant gap at the Beijing Olympics to a miniscule margin at the London World Championship. But the reality is that LD is simply the better player.LD is one of the greatest players in the history of badminton. After '05 WC where TH reigned, it has been LD's era. Anyone, including LCW, can beat LD only as an upset. The best LCW and the others can hope for is making sure themselves being at their best when some sort of lapse happens with LD. If LD is at his best, there is no training or strategy that can beat LD.Therefore, bettering LD is a hopeless goal that can only lead to pressure to fail and bring psychological scars. Accepting the inferior position and being the best they can be to capture the right moment is the right way to score a victory off LD.
    You should ask Morten Frost. He said during OG08, LD is superior. But now he considers LCW better. Tactics is the key factor in outcome, all other things being equal. The right tactics is dependent on comprehensive preparation and comprehensive preparation now must include intensive homework that only CHN coaches are capable of. MAS players ( including LCW) and coaches just don t get it because it s time consuming and intense thinking. Now that is real, hard work.

  6. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    You should ask Morten Frost. He said during OG08, LD is superior. But now he considers LCW better. Tactics is the key factor in outcome, all other things being equal. The right tactics is dependent on comprehensive preparation and comprehensive preparation now must include intensive homework that only CHN coaches are capable of. MAS players ( including LCW) and coaches just don t get it because it s time consuming and intense thinking. Now that is real, hard work.
    Morten Frost's judgement is compromised by his feelings for LCW, due their history. By past and recent results, LD is clearly better than LCW.

    Now, this is sports. The beauty of sports is that anything can happen. If WKW and SS (or even KT) can beat LD, surely LCW can beat LD.

    It is unrealistic and unproductive to think that there are some specific things such tactics or coaching that would enable LCW to beat LD. The reality is that the outcome depends more on LD than LCW. If LD sets out to win, he will win.

    The best that LCW can do is not exhausting himself to better LD but to prepare himself to be at his very best in every encounter with LD and let the sporting god decide the outcome.

  7. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedShuttle View Post
    It is unrealistic and unproductive to think that there are some specific things such tactics or coaching that would enable LCW to beat LD. The reality is that the outcome depends more on LD than LCW. If LD sets out to win, he will win.

    The best that LCW can do is not exhausting himself to better LD but to prepare himself to be at his very best in every encounter with LD and let the sporting god decide the outcome.
    Redshuttle is right. If LD is focused on winning, there is nothing that LCW can do.

    Boleh fans want to believe it's China's coaches that help LD over Malaysian coaches, etc, etc, that LCW is not rested, etc, etc. The truth is, LD is a better player than LCW. If LD wants to win over LCW, LD will win over LCW. There is no coach in the world or no amount of rest that LCW can get to beat a determined and focused LD.

  8. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by galaxyduo View Post
    Redshuttle is right. If LD is focused on winning, there is nothing that LCW can do.

    Boleh fans want to believe it's China's coaches that help LD over Malaysian coaches, etc, etc, that LCW is not rested, etc, etc. The truth is, LD is a better player than LCW. If LD wants to win over LCW, LD will win over LCW. There is no coach in the world or no amount of rest that LCW can get to beat a determined and focused LD.
    Everyone can be defeated with the correct strategy.
    What you & redshuttle are saying is the one not making sense. It is only right in paper. LD lost some matches because he was simply outplayed. Saying he lost because he did not want to win is sounding like a typical fan boy excuse.

  9. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogerv2 View Post
    Everyone can be defeated with the correct strategy.
    Badminton is much more than strategy, lol. You can have the best strategy in the world but if your skills are not there, it does not matter what strategy you use.

    As for skill:

    LD smash > LCW smash
    LD net play > LCW net play
    LD drive shots > LCW drive shots
    LD deception > LCW deception
    LD consistency > LCW consistency
    LD stamina > LCW stamina
    LD power > LCW power
    LD anticipation > LCW anticipation
    LD line judgement > LCW line judgement

    LCW is lacking in alot of skills compared to LD. If LD is motivated and focused to win, there is nothing that LCW can do because LCW's skills are inferior to LD

  10. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by galaxyduo View Post
    Badminton is much more than strategy, lol. You can have the best strategy in the world but if your skills are not there, it does not matter what strategy you use.

    As for skill:

    LD smash > LCW smash
    LD net play > LCW net play
    LD drive shots > LCW drive shots
    LD deception > LCW deception
    LD consistency > LCW consistency
    LD stamina > LCW stamina
    LD power > LCW power
    LD anticipation > LCW anticipation
    LD line judgement > LCW line judgement

    LCW is lacking in alot of skills compared to LD. If LD is motivated and focused to win, there is nothing that LCW can do because LCW's skills are inferior to LD
    Their skill is not that far apart. You are forgetting that application of skill is not guaranteed in real life. U must have noticed in the recent CSS final LD made so many mistakes, maybe as u put it, he was not motivated. I would say his application of the skill was off.

    On the plus side, now I have a good excuse to give every time I lose to a player with less skill than me. I was not motivated/focused else I could have beaten you.

  11. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogerv2 View Post
    Everyone can be defeated with the correct strategy.
    What you & redshuttle are saying is the one not making sense. It is only right in paper. LD lost some matches because he was simply outplayed. Saying he lost because he did not want to win is sounding like a typical fan boy excuse.
    It's very simple.

    Given the great strategy, coaching and sparing partners that CJ has, he should have beaten LCW on a more regular basis. By BWF's record, CJ's last win against LCW was on March 8, 2008.

    On the other hand, CL, in an identical environment, went from helpless against LCW to beating him back to back.

    The key is people, not strategy. People can change, by adapting the right strategy, etc. But at the end of the day, it is still PEOPLE.

  12. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedShuttle View Post
    It's very simple. Given the great strategy, coaching and sparing partners that CJ has, he should have beaten LCW on a more regular basis. By BWF's record, CJ's last win against LCW was on March 8, 2008.On the other hand, CL, in an identical environment, went from helpless against LCW to beating him back to back.The key is people, not strategy. People can change, by adapting the right strategy, etc. But at the end of the day, it is still PEOPLE.
    Could not be more than true....Similar theory, everyone sees how LD beats LCW so many times ( be it 18:8 or 20:8 in H2H), but could anyone else learn from these matches and beats LCW on a similar manner / strategy??? The answer is NO!!! (maybe CL in the years to come) Because there is only one LD!!!! Because it is not just simply by copying the strategy!!!!

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    FYI, Lin vs Lee H2H is now 21:8, including the 1M-prize exhibition match a couple weeks ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonc108 View Post
    Could not be more than true....Similar theory, everyone sees how LD beats LCW so many times ( be it 18:8 or 20:8 in H2H), but could anyone else learn from these matches and beats LCW on a similar manner / strategy??? The answer is NO!!! (maybe CL in the years to come) Because there is only one LD!!!! Because it is not just simply by copying the strategy!!!!

  14. #65
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    Looks like lot of you guys are talking about strategies.

    1. Strategies are only important for players at the same level. Now, people are questioning whether LCW has the same skill level as LD. In my mind, LD has better smashes for sure. The others, like anticipation, movement, etc, I think they are about the same level.

    2. Strategies mean nothing if you don't have the skill set. For instance, you can give me the best coach in the world, the best strategy, etc, I still can not beat LCW. LCW will still beat me 21-0.

    3. The same goes to mental toughness. If you don't have the skillset and strategies, mental toughness mean nothing. You can't always blame LCW is mentally weak, as he still can beat me 21-0.

    I think LD is a hair better than LCW in skill set (power, movement, judgement, etc), and just because of that hair difference in skill set, it makes big difference in the results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    You should ask Morten Frost. He said during OG08, LD is superior. But now he considers LCW better. Tactics is the key factor in outcome, all other things being equal. The right tactics is dependent on comprehensive preparation and comprehensive preparation now must include intensive homework that only CHN coaches are capable of. MAS players ( including LCW) and coaches just don t get it because it s time consuming and intense thinking. Now that is real, hard work.
    Morten Frost who??? Talking about now? This year LCW with H2H 1:4 to LD is better than LD now?He should consult his compatriot Peter the Great who is better after he played with both for so many times....

  16. #67
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    You should ask Morten Frost. He said during OG08, LD is superior. But now he considers LCW better. Tactics is the key factor in outcome, all other things being equal. The right tactics is dependent on comprehensive preparation and comprehensive preparation now must include intensive homework that only CHN coaches are capable of. MAS players ( including LCW) and coaches just don t get it because it s time consuming and intense thinking. Now that is real, hard work.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedShuttle View Post
    Morten Frost's judgement is compromised by his feelings for LCW, due their history. By past and recent results, LD is clearly better than LCW.

    Now, this is sports. The beauty of sports is that anything can happen. If WKW and SS (or even KT) can beat LD, surely LCW can beat LD.

    It is unrealistic and unproductive to think that there are some specific things such tactics or coaching that would enable LCW to beat LD. The reality is that the outcome depends more on LD than LCW. If LD sets out to win, he will win.

    The best that LCW can do is not exhausting himself to better LD but to prepare himself to be at his very best in every encounter with LD and let the sporting god decide the outcome.
    I'm pretty sure he was asked that before the WC final and at the time the majority thought so here as well (iirc). Now that I've replied anyway might as well make the comment I had about the thread title : LCW surely is not in his best form at the moment, not since the WCs which should have been a peak moment in physical, mental, etc. preparation which you cannot hold a whole year long ... but maybe now with less pressure he's not playing so uptight (should probably make some time to watch a few of these recent matches )
    Last edited by demolidor; 12-01-2011 at 03:39 PM.

  17. #68
    Regular Member V1lau's Avatar
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    I think the difference in opinion stems from the fact that both fans look at the players differently.

    Many Lee Chong Wei fans believe LCW is the equal and/or better intrinsically than Lin Dan. So if you believe LCW is a better overall badminton player than Lin Dan, the only way you can justify the HTH record against LD and no one else, is that LCW suffers from a systematical or psychological deficiencies.

    Many Lin Dan fans believe LD is better/ or a lot better intrinsically than LCW. They believe they are justified because of the lopsided HTH record and the way LD consistently makes LCW look like he's suffering psychological damage.

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