home court advantage

**lucida** · 11-27-2011, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by kelana

(1) "it's common sense that some Chinese people just hate Chinese people"
Since you said SOME, it's hard to argue, jealousy lives everywhere esp. among the losers

furthermore *some* is qualitative, very loose, technically it can't be wronged to name any quantity more than two as some.

(2) "they hate people only because they are Chinese, no matter what they do"
this is the very 1st time i ever read such tendentious remark! You alleged that some Chinese people hate their fellow countrymen just because they are Chinese! Amazing to learn!

(3) Oops! A very BOLD statement of yours "and they hate themselves to be Chinese"
so what these so-called self-haters wanna be? a non-yellow? becoming Swiss people??? Or Icelanders?

please tell us

(4) "And of course we have just enough LD haters here in China."
may you pls tell us why these many ("just enough") Chinese people hate their own motherland's shiniest badminton star?

Since your location indicates Shanghai, China, it seems to give you 'more weight' in your bold remarks here.

(1) "Some" here should be very large. 1%, I think.
(2) If you are a jobless guy who hates the government but cannot vote or go on a mini parade, and every day you walk on the street seeing only people, people and people and knowing the fact there are 1.4 billion people in the country, you may think it's the people here that caused your misery.
(3) They want to be USA citizens, that's so easy to understand.
(4) They hate the government and they think LD represents the government, not them. They think the Chinese badminton team is "a waste of taxpayers' money", so they hate LD.

**eaglehelang** · 11-28-2011, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Wildstone

To be honest, I don't think the reason is that they lost and LCW got spared because he is winning a lot. The reason player got booed at is because of their attitude. You can see from LCW that he is serious and work hard on each point. That's why he didn't get booed even if he lost (or sometimes lost badly) because everyone knows he has try his best. On the other hand, if you look at KKK/TBH, they show a 'don't-care attitude' when they are trailing and couldn't be bothered. They don't work hard in rallies and just keep clearing the shuttles like an exhibition match. That's why they get booed.

my main point is the attitude of the fans. As already discussed many times, other countries fans dont boo their country's players(as far as I've observed), even when their players trailing far behind or playing badly. they keep cheering till the very last point. Look at uber cup 2010 ina vs china match as one of the examples.for msia, if leading only they cheer, if trailing, no support. It same for all,from back up to elite. If bad luck get expressive so called fans, will get lots of verbal abuse,throw stuff at the players, just havent scold until grandfather grandmother, lol.

**kelana** · 11-28-2011, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by lucida

(1) "Some" here should be very large. 1%, I think.
(2) If you are a jobless guy who hates the government but cannot vote or go on a mini parade, and every day you walk on the street seeing only people, people and people and knowing the fact there are 1.4 billion people in the country, you may think it's the people here that caused your misery.
(3) They want to be USA citizens, that's so easy to understand.
(4) They hate the government and they think LD represents the government, not them. They think the Chinese badminton team is "a waste of taxpayers' money", so they hate LD.

(1) be careful, 1% of 1,340,000,000 is 13,400,000 (or 14 millions if i use your figure)... that's a huge number! any link to attest your statement?

(2) well, we can just ignore the jobless folks or any other desperados...they may simply hate everything and everyone incl their own parents and very existences into this world amidst their ordeals

(3) If you state this info 5 years ago, a while before the 2008 GFC, readers may still buy into it. Nowadays only cavemen still think it's a heaven! Needless to say, for some high achievers, everywhere is cool for they bring along plenty of cash with them.

(4) Those people, if any, just hate everything...from the failed soccer team, Beijing Olympics, Shanghai World Expo, high-speed rail to China's space programs and so on...keep on thinking why govt "wastes" the money i/o handing out freely to them.

My other common senses, there are always some perverts in society regardless how strict they are, some losers in a nation regardless how progressive they are as a unity... or generally speaking, in whatsoever quality or trait, there's always an exceptionalness.

**yayachico** · 11-28-2011, 03:34 AM

so tell me, are you hating yourself very much right now? since the day you were born??

**lucida** · 11-28-2011, 04:50 AM

I'm not a hater. I hate haters. I'm just stating the truth.
Whatever you think, people still think USA is a heaven, because they can get what they see as freedom. You can't get as much freedom in China as in western countries. Like it or not, that's what most people believes. Of all the top oversea students in western countries, at least 3/4 of them won't come back.
The Chinese government is a totalarian government. The government itselfs admit that. It may be a good government form, but this form is very easy to get hated.
While about taxpayers' money, high-speed rail and space program may actually seems useful, but sports (to those people) seems totally useless, because normal people or non-sports lovers can get nothing from it. Every day on major forums, there are heated debates one whether the country should subsidize athletes. And some famous medias consider it a shame for Chinese people because "only China is doing this".

**lucida** · 11-28-2011, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by kelana

(2) well, we can just ignore the jobless folks or any other desperados...they may simply hate everything and everyone incl their own parents and very existences into this world amidst their ordeals

You have no idea how severe the population problem is in China.

**lucida** · 11-28-2011, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by kelana

My other common senses, there are always some perverts in society regardless how strict they are, some losers in a nation regardless how progressive they are as a unity... or generally speaking, in whatsoever quality or trait, there's always an exceptionalness.

I sense you don't agree with them on their view of this country. I do not either.
I am just describing to you what I hear and what I see.
The problem about government form and the problem about national sports policies are very big and realistic issues. At least 100 million people are still in poverty by interantional standard, so people just don't really like rich people, especially those they consider not having contributed anything, like atheletes. That's why there are so many national team haters.
Do you think any malaysian will hate LCW because they hate the malaysian government? It's weird, right? But in China it may be the right thing to do.

**limsy** · 11-28-2011, 06:48 AM

they didnt hate lcw
they look down on lcw

**kelana** · 11-28-2011, 06:59 AM

Lucida, try to focus on the sport individual(s) and sport-related matters instead of knocking any country or nation, which isn't nice! A country or nation is definitely beyond any individual! As this is a sport or badminton forum in particular, i think any further discussion into other realm is inappropriate here

(though i'm more than willing to have a friendly discussion with you upon it, esp. as i notice you've very shaped views).

**lucida** · 11-28-2011, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by kelana

Lucida, try to focus on the sport individual(s) and sport-related matters instead of knocking any country or nation, which isn't nice! A country or nation is definitely beyond any individual! As this is a sport or badminton forum in particular, i think any further discussion into other realm is inappropriate here

(though i'm more than willing to have a friendly discussion with you upon it, esp. as i notice you've very shaped views).

I do not know what you mean. I am at Shanghai and I am native Chinese. I am not a hater and I have argued with haters on many Chinese forums. I tell you about their viewpoints. Why do you think I have shaped views?
In the first post I was just trying to tell you why LD was upset, because normally he wouldn't be. It's you who asked me to further state my opinion with a rather long post, and you think it's not nice now?
Are you Chinese or do you care about China very much? If not, I don't think you will be very persuasive.

**2cents** · 11-28-2011, 11:37 AM

Thank Lucida and Kelana both for your discussion. I fully understand both of you.

I think all views are shaped, all views are the reflection of his or her personal cultural sediment. Any statements, made by anyone, are the facts shaped by his analysis of relationship, pattern and risk taking.

Lucida has been clear on distinguish the facts, he presented from his view, and his personal standing. I see very valid reason for "haters" to "hate", although I don't think haters is the appropriate term for them. I don't think "haters" agreed others call them "haters".

Most misunderstanding comes with over generalization. This generalization could be made by the writer or by the reader.

For writers: For example, Here are the rules to write:
1) It should be ok to write: "Lin Dan is handsome". or "Taufik is cute"
2) It might be ok too to write: "Chinese are beautiful" or "Indonesians are pretty"
3) It's still fine to write: "Lin Dan is ugly" or "Taufik is ugly"
4) But it's NOT right to write "Chinese are ugly" or "Indonesians are ugly"

I never hate any people. It's not healthy to claim "I hate Lin Dan" or "I hate Taufik", but it's ok legally.

If someone claims "I hate Chinese" or "I hate Indonesians", then it's a crime; based on the #4 rule above.

It's important for writes to write right, and then readers have to interpret right too. Here are the rules to read:
1) "Chinese are beautiful" can be derived to "Wang YH is beautiful. That's ok.
2) It's fine to interpret that "Wang YH is beautiful" as "Chinese are beautiful", although it may not correct logically, it's fine legitimately.
3) But it's NOT right to draw your conclusion "Chinese are ugly" based on the statement "Lin Dan is ugly". That's not right.

One live example here:

Once I wrote I didn't like Taufik's on court behaviour, then huangkwokhau concluded that I hate all Indonesia players. This is an example huangkwokhau violated the readers' rule #3.

Once I wrote that I found Indonesia local organization did terrible job, then huangkwokhau accused me of hating all Indonesia people. That's a serious violation of his side on reading my writing.

Summary, both writers and readers have to obey the rules, and respect each other. I fully respect the people who either love Lin Dan or hate Lin Dan. I see both sides strong legitimate points. When I sit inside stadium watching LD vs LCW, I could "Jia You" for either one of them. 99% chance I will "Jia You" the one who's falling behind, as many friends suggested here.

**2cents** · 11-28-2011, 11:45 AM

By the way, I think mod/admin should kindly give huangkwokhau yellow card or/and red card for his continuous violations.

**niepan** · 11-28-2011, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by lucida

I am at Shanghai and I am native Chinese.

No wonder, no wonder, a typical Shanghainese.

**niepan** · 11-28-2011, 12:57 PM

As a Chinese currently working in US, who has spent more than 7 years here, I am wondering is that, USA is a heaven, Shanghainese view of points? As Shanghai being a modern and international metropolitan, this opinion still sounds short-sighted, very, very much. It sounds more like a 90-year old men who never steps out his own house.

Yes, many Chinese remain in US after studying. But are you blind for the trend? Comparing those who went to US in 1990's and those did in 2000's, what are the ratios and what is the trend?

And, if you ask Chinese what they need most in today's society. Guess how many would answer "freedom". At least my families in China won't answer this. They will say: more good food, more good clothes, cheaper price, etc. lol

Originally Posted by lucida

I'm not a hater. I hate haters. I'm just stating the truth.
Whatever you think, people still think USA is a heaven, because they can get what they see as freedom. You can't get as much freedom in China as in western countries. Like it or not, that's what most people believes. Of all the top oversea students in western countries, at least 3/4 of them won't come back.
The Chinese government is a totalarian government. The government itselfs admit that. It may be a good government form, but this form is very easy to get hated.
While about taxpayers' money, high-speed rail and space program may actually seems useful, but sports (to those people) seems totally useless, because normal people or non-sports lovers can get nothing from it. Every day on major forums, there are heated debates one whether the country should subsidize athletes. And some famous medias consider it a shame for Chinese people because "only China is doing this".

**niepan** · 11-28-2011, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by lucida

Do you think any malaysian will hate LCW because they hate the malaysian government? It's weird, right? But in China it may be the right thing to do.

And I am curious how many guests have you asked why they booed LD and they answered they were hating Chinese government. I've heard many reasons: wishing to see an excellent match, showing support to the one who loses, disliking cocky LD, disliking cocky LYB, but your idea is something quite new to me. Again as a native Chinese, active on many major Chinese forums, this is really retard. I remember you mention you are also active in many forum, I would guess they are primarily NanFangXi, aren't they? blinking, blinking

**huangkwokhau** · 11-28-2011, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by 2cents

By the way, I think mod/admin should kindly give huangkwokhau yellow card or/and red card for his continuous violations.

Great! Look at your previous thread....please do not twist the words...regarding INA Open..you knew you did wrong...you ACCUSED INA Open organizer done terrible and unprofessional before finding whats happening...Basically you accused PBSI and others favors INA Players and you did not find it.and it turned out INA Open is one of the best tournament....so you have violated beyond rule #4....see how many threads you have been locked....
Moderators should have warned you....

**huangkwokhau** · 11-28-2011, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by lucida

I'm not a hater. I hate haters. I'm just stating the truth.
Whatever you think, people still think USA is a heaven, because they can get what they see as freedom. You can't get as much freedom in China as in western countries. Like it or not, that's what most people believes. Of all the top oversea students in western countries, at least 3/4 of them won't come back.
The Chinese government is a totalarian government. The government itselfs admit that. It may be a good government form, but this form is very easy to get hated.
While about taxpayers' money, high-speed rail and space program may actually seems useful, but sports (to those people) seems totally useless, because normal people or non-sports lovers can get nothing from it. Every day on major forums, there are heated debates one whether the country should subsidize athletes. And some famous medias consider it a shame for Chinese people because "only China is doing this".

To be fair to CBA...as far as I know they do not use Government or tax money...CBA has secured enough sponsorships to fund the badminton players...FYI..LI NING's contract with CBA in 2009, it is about US$ 6 million then Fed-ex/DOW, etc..
You should inform your chinese forums that CBA did not use Tax money..may be during Olympic's program..
Being athlete is not easy...may be 1 out of 10000 can earn the living and many do not go to school and very much dedicate to the sport ( I am not talking about Chinese players only but mostly for Asian players) and they bring country's name...seriously..no reason to hate them..unless you do not like their behaviours ( thats another thing)