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  1. #1
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    Default How to give advice or correct something wrong without.....

    This is something I often come across.

    There are many times I see wrong doings of my friend on the court or partner, like:

    1. standing at the side when one of the player is smashing from rear court.
    2. standing straight, not at the ready position.
    3. Player at the front (in front-back formation) drops racket down or even doesn't get involved in playing.
    4. not at the stance to receive a serve.
    etc.

    Basically I tell them that is wrong and it should be...but often:
    a. They ignore me and continue doing the wrong thing
    b. Argue with me
    c. Even getting into debate even fight.

    What's the best possible way to give advice on incorrect techniques or tactics so they can receive it and I don;t get ignored or get into debate or even fight.

    Sometimes it get's frustating, like in point one where the player still stands at the side when his partner is smashing so when the opponent does a block to the empty side, both the rear player and the "supposed" front player dashes there and have some comedy. There are many cases where the "supposed" front player blames the rear player because he didn't defend his own smash.

  2. #2
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    if they don't want to listen to your advice, then they're either beginners or stubborn or both...

    i've faced such players before, as probably many others also... you are not their coach... so to save yourself headache and to avoid your play level from deteriorating to a lower level, it's probably best to avoid partnering these players altogether

    spoken from experience...

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    I will not bother if it's a leisure game. But if they are asking for your advice... Then it's another story.

    We are there to play and enjoy and be happy, not the other way around...

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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    if they don't want to listen to your advice, then they're either beginners or stubborn or both...
    I don't think I can class players who has a very hard smash and tight net shot as a beginner. They have good strokes. The problem is they probably just play from experience.

    Sometimes their eyes will open. usually because they play inferior players (I mean, whose strokes are erratic and doesn't have a good smash), but the inferior player plays more tactical and have correct positions and stance. even if they win at the end, they will start to think.

    For example me and my friends from Indonesia playing with taiwanese and vietnamese at the university court, (when I was finishing my degree). Many of my friends have better strokes (harder smashes, tighter dropshot or net play), but if it comes to footwork and positioning, many of the taiwanese and vietnamese are better.

    that was when they started to think something was wrong with them.

    now, in my city, I also give advice on returning smashes. and usually the inferior players are the ones who will listen. That is when the superior players start wondering why their smashes doesn't work anymore.

    Isn't it mortifying when your weaker partner is good at returning smashes while you can't return smashes (I was partnered with someone who refused to play with me many times, and somehow he can't return easy smashes that I can return)

    still it hurts to be stared and ignored untill I can say "see, I told ya."

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    Better not giving any advice unless being ask as alien9113 suggest, you will make more enemies even your intention is noble. Save your energy doing footwork drills instead.

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    I rarely give advice at club nights, even if I'm playing in a situation where I'm stronger than the other players.

    Just because I can see what a player is doing wrong, doesn't mean I can correct it. Only the player can change his game.

    You are dealing with people, not robots. If you offer unwanted advice, then you will often get a bad reaction. You will not get a positive outcome unless the player is receptive to your advice.

    Sometimes, however, you can give advice even if you were not directly asked. You need to think about how the player feels. How well do you know them? Have they given any indication that they value your opinion?

    You also need to learn how to give advice in a self-effacing way. Avoid telling people, "that is wrong, this is the right way" (are you sure? how do you know? who made you the god of badminton?). Instead, just offer suggestions.

    Also think about the social context. Are you giving them advice in front of other players? That can be seen as establishing social dominance ("I am the expert in this group. Listen to me."). Whereas having a conversation between just the two of you is less threatening.

    If they want to learn from you, they will. If they don't, they won't. It's that simple.
    Last edited by Gollum; 08-23-2014 at 06:50 AM.

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    Usually if you start with a praise before the advice, the response will be better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
    I rarely give advice at club nights, even if I'm playing in a situation where I'm stronger than the other players.

    Just because I can see what a player is doing wrong, doesn't mean I can correct it. Only the player can change his game.

    You are dealing with people, not robots. If you offer unwanted advice, then you will often get a bad reaction. You will not get a positive outcome unless the player is receptive to your advice.

    Sometimes, however, you can give advice even if you were not directly asked. You need to think about how the player feels. How well do you know them? Have they given any indication that they value your opinion?

    You also need to learn how to give advice in a self-effacing way. Avoid telling people, "that is wrong, this is the right way" (are you sure? how do you know? who made you the god of badminton?). Instead, just offer suggestions.

    Also think about the social context. Are you giving them advice in front of other players? That can be seen as establishing social dominance ("I am the expert in this group. Listen to me."). Whereas having a conversation between just the two of you is less threatening.

    If they want to learn from you, they will. If they don't, they won't. It's that simple.
    This should be in an updated section in the Badminton Bible.

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    Maybe you can try pairing up with those you think are playing "correctly", and see if you can beat others consistently, and by a wide margin. If you can do that, maybe some of them would like to find out more. Then you can discuss about what you know that they don't.

    Otherwise, as you described, since they smash harder, and net tighter, they may think they're better players than you're. Why should they be listening to anyone that's deemed inferior?

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    Quote Originally Posted by alien9113 View Post
    We are there to play and enjoy and be happy, not the other way around...
    I can't enjoy games where I we lose so many easy points just because my partner isn't covering the front when I smash



    Quote Originally Posted by raymond View Post
    Maybe you can try pairing up with those you think are playing "correctly", and see if you can beat others consistently, and by a wide margin.
    This is the one thing I like, I don't need to beat them, usually make it hard to beat is good enough. I like to be paired with taiwanese players, as there positioning and "doing the right thing at the right time" is top notch, although many of them don't have the best strokes.

    What is needed is just to wait for my better friends (who are my opponent) to lift the ball and we can enter front-rear formation. Usually my friends can't find a way out as the shuttle is always shot with a dropping trajectory, no clears and no straight drives. and then there is the front player who also plays and will netkill and smash any loose return.

    What is also good about my taiwanese friends is as soon as we lift the shuttle, they enter side to side formation immediately, unlike my Indonesian fellow friends who just stay front-rear and then lose the point by a smash to the sides.

    it is very different if I'm paired with my fellow indonesian players because the shots can be a drive and even a clear although in the"textbook", the shuttle is high enough to do a smash or dropshot.

    I hate it when we enter the front-rear formation, the shuttle return is good for a smash or drop shot, but my partner plays a drive or clear instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raymond View Post
    ....

    ..., as you described, since they smash harder, and net tighter, they may think they're better players than you are. Why should they be listening to anyone that's deemed inferior?
    This is a very significant point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by opikbidin View Post

    This is the one thing I like, I don't need to beat them, usually make it hard to beat is good enough. I like to be paired with taiwanese players, as there positioning and "doing the right thing at the right time" is top notch, although many of them don't have the best strokes.


    What is also good about my taiwanese friends is as soon as we lift the shuttle, they enter side to side formation immediately, unlike my Indonesian fellow friends who just stay front-rear and then lose the point by a smash to the sides.

    it is very different if I'm paired with my fellow indonesian players because the shots can be a drive and even a clear although in the"textbook", the shuttle is high enough to do a smash or dropshot.

    I hate it when we enter the front-rear formation, the shuttle return is good for a smash or drop shot, but my partner plays a drive or clear instead.
    Your group has players who are weaker. Enjoy your games and the knowledge that you can beat them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    This should be in an updated section in the Badminton Bible.
    Thanks. It's coming, once I get my act together. Nearly there now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    Your group has players who are weaker. Enjoy your games and the knowledge that you can beat them.
    I enjoy to win of course, but I also want to play good and be satisfied. How can I enjoy a game when points are won because my opponents often miss the shuttle, smashes into the net, become flatfooted when given a clear and can't return when I target his backhand.

    one reason I give advice is because I was able to become better thanks to someone who tells me what was wrong with my game while playing.

    I had been playing badminton since junior high school, but up until the time when I was in uni, my play didn't develop. I was a beginner and still that. The change came when I was playing with someone and he pointed out what was wrong with my game, like how I didn't clear to the corners, staying at front-back formation when the shuttle has been lifted, and how I don't smash or dropshot when the opportunity was there.

    that was the first time I really tried to become better at badminton, and I did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by opikbidin View Post
    I enjoy to win of course, but I also want to play good and be satisfied. How can I enjoy a game when points are won because my opponents often miss the shuttle, smashes into the net, become flatfooted when given a clear and can't return when I target his backhand.

    one reason I give advice is because I was able to become better thanks to someone who tells me what was wrong with my game while playing.

    I had been playing badminton since junior high school, but up until the time when I was in uni, my play didn't develop. I was a beginner and still that. The change came when I was playing with someone and he pointed out what was wrong with my game, like how I didn't clear to the corners, staying at front-back formation when the shuttle has been lifted, and how I don't smash or dropshot when the opportunity was there.

    that was the first time I really tried to become better at badminton, and I did.
    Oh, this is so easy to answer! If you desire to have better games, you need to explore playing in other groups. It's a natural progression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by opikbidin View Post
    I can't enjoy games where I we lose so many easy points just because my partner isn't covering the front when I smash
    Usually when this happens, I tell my partner, why not we work out some something.

    If I am behind smashing, you move in front and cover me. Likewise if my partner is behind smashing.

    In such situations, I am not giving advice, but simply discussing how we can avoid losing points again.

    It makes the games enjoyable for both us as we can avoid losing a game or at least, play a good game even if we lose.

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    I was thinking along the same line. You simply pledge - "I need your help. Can you please help cover me when I'm at the back smashing? If they block, I won't be able to move forward fast enough to continue the aggression."

    Quote Originally Posted by alien9113 View Post
    Usually when this happens, I tell my partner, why not we work out some something.

    If I am behind smashing, you move in front and cover me. Likewise if my partner is behind smashing.

    In such situations, I am not giving advice, but simply discussing how we can avoid losing points again.

    It makes the games enjoyable for both us as we can avoid losing a game or at least, play a good game even if we lose.

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