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  1. #52
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    The thing about Lin Dan is that he is always 1/2 step to 1 step ahead of his opponent IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

    Superior athletism doesnt work if you're always going the wrong way. That's why Lin Dan is a class above in the modern game... and that not all modern players match up againts Past Legends

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    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    The thing about Lin Dan is that he is always 1/2 step to 1 step ahead of his opponent IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

    Superior athletism doesnt work if you're always going the wrong way. That's why Lin Dan is a class above in the modern game... and that not all modern players match up againts Past Legends
    i have been pounding the table for years and years in BF on the message that speed beat stroke skills. I've met many resistance. I talk about LD alot because i use him as an example frequently - how to develop the right skills the way it should be for a MS player. The backhand smash, backhand cross court drops, are mostly for show, not bread and butter core skills.

  3. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo View Post
    I've noticed that today's players are bigger and stronger and they have the advantage of the latest badminton technology. Today's game centers a lot around power and so the game has evolved at the fundamental level. Notice how nearly all international level MS or MD players will do jump-smashes today while that statement can only be said for perhaps the elite bunch of yesteryears.

    As a contrast, I made a statement in the "badminton videos" thread that the players of the 80's and 90's seemed more graceful and fluid-like, because their games did not center completely on power. Also, those players did not have Ultimum-Ti, or Muscle Power technology, etc. in their rackets.

    If all variables were kept the same (ie. same rackets, shoes), then I would think the best players of yesterday can beat the best of today. Li Yong Bo/Tian Bing Yi in their prime would definitely slaughter the current crop of Chinese MD players. similarly, I believe Zhao Jian Hua/Yang Yang could match Chen Hong/Xia Xuan Ze. Regarding Kim/Ha, I don't think they can beat their predecessors, Park Joo Boon/Kim Moon Soo.

    What do others think?
    In what ways are LiYongBo/ Tian Bing Yi better that CY/FHF and may I know why you are comparing Zhao Jian Hua/ Yang Yang with Cheng Hong/ Xia Xuan Ze instead of LD and BCL?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkai View Post
    In what ways are LiYongBo/ Tian Bing Yi better that CY/FHF and may I know why you are comparing Zhao Jian Hua/ Yang Yang with Cheng Hong/ Xia Xuan Ze instead of LD and BCL?
    i doubt hugo is around to answer your post

    anyway, it is silly and nonsense to say yesterday best can out play today's best. Of course i respect the old heros, they pave the foundation of skills for the today's players to build on but today's players don't stop here, they keep on piling on new skills and experience.

    hugo is saying if same old (non-radial) tires, gasoline are used, old gasoline race cars can out perform today's gasoline race cars. Silly silly.

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    There's no way the players of generations past can match up with the players of today... Training method, technology etc are much better today... Look at other sports like baseball, basketball, hockey... The players are that much bigger and faster today... Just like players 20 yrs from now can own players this generation...

  6. #57
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    Is there one sprinter record that was set in the 80s/90s is still holding up today??

    So what makes you guy believe the past great could actually match up with today's top pro???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wong8Egg View Post
    Is there one sprinter record that was set in the 80s/90s is still holding up today??

    So what makes you guy believe the past great could actually match up with today's top pro???
    short and sweet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wong8Egg View Post
    Is there one sprinter record that was set in the 80s/90s is still holding up today??

    So what makes you guy believe the past great could actually match up with today's top pro???
    sprinting is not synonymous with badminton. Case in point, Roddick has the fastest serve in Tennis History, But can he rack up his championship trophies against Federer? Does Federer have the best strength in any shot? Does Tiger hits the ball the hardest? Court games must be looked at differently as not all shots end up with a winning smash.

    Jason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonMichael View Post
    sprinting is not synonymous with badminton. Case in point, Roddick has the fastest serve in Tennis History, But can he rack up his championship trophies against Federer? Does Federer have the best strength in any shot? Does Tiger hits the ball the hardest? Court games must be looked at differently as not all shots end up with a winning smash.

    Jason.
    obviously u don't get the underlining point of wongegg's comparison. Wongegg DID NOT compare sprinting to badminton. He asked u to compare speed of old and new sprinters within the realm of the same sport, sprinting. If u can't find 1 in sprinting, nor in swimming, nor in drag racing, nor in etc. Then by sound reasoning, without going into all aspect of badminton skills, the same can be said to badminton as well.

    Speed is the decider in sprinting, why r u bringing forward speed of serve in tennis or speed of golf swing into the sprinting comparison? We all know fastest smashes don't point to the best player.

    In order to prove wongegg's example as invalid, u have to find:
    1. find a sprinter of the past that can out do today's sprinter.
    or
    2. find another sport when past athletes can out do today best.

    don't cherry pick 1 skill and cross jump into another sport for comparison.


    It seem this analogy is too hard for u to understand, not short and sweet.
    Last edited by cooler; 11-08-2009 at 02:43 AM.

  10. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    obviously u don't get the underlining point of wongegg's comparison. Wongegg DID NOT compare sprinting to badminton. He asked u to compare speed of old and new sprinters within the realm of the same sport, sprinting. If u can't find 1 in sprinting, nor in swimming, nor in drag racing, nor in etc. Then by sound reasoning, without going into all aspect of badminton skills, the same can be said to badminton as well.

    Speed is the decider in sprinting, why r u bringing forward speed of serve in tennis or speed of golf swing into the sprinting comparison? We all know fastest smashes don't point to the best player.

    In order to prove wongegg's example as invalid, u have to find:
    1. find a sprinter of the past that can out do today's sprinter.
    or
    2. find another sport when past athletes can out do today best.

    don't cherry pick 1 skill and cross jump into another sport for comparison.


    It seem this analogy is too hard for u to understand, not short and sweet.
    Cooler, I know you are very smart. Thanks for pointing that out. And I know you always want to point others out that are stupid. But he was stating that the present players can outdo the past players, which he brought in the comparison of speed between past and present competitors in the same field, which I disagree, especially in court games.
    I was not comparing roddick with the sprinter. I was comparing roddick with previous tennis players. I was not comparing Tiger with sprinters. I was comparing Tiger with previous Golf players. I was just trying to say that even with great strides made in speed and power, we still have the best players not needing to have the best speed and the highest power to be a champion.
    Seems you are very condescending when others make opinions that are not to your high standards. And I did not cherry pick my statements to make me look good. So I shall stop here, and you can carry on with your sarcasm with others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonMichael View Post
    Cooler, I know you are very smart. Thanks for pointing that out. And I know you always want to point others out that are stupid. But he was stating that the present players can outdo the past players, which he brought in the comparison of speed between past and present competitors in the same field, which I disagree, especially in court games.
    I was not comparing roddick with the sprinter. I was comparing roddick with previous tennis players. I was not comparing Tiger with sprinters. I was comparing Tiger with previous Golf players. I was just trying to say that even with great strides made in speed and power, we still have the best players not needing to have the best speed and the highest power to be a champion.
    Seems you are very condescending when others make opinions that are not to your high standards. And I did not cherry pick my statements to make me look good. So I shall stop here, and you can carry on with your sarcasm with others.
    u r wasting a lot of energy beating around the bush and repeating yourself.
    Why don't u save some energy with just giving me 1 reply for:

    In order to prove wongegg's example as invalid, u have to find:
    1. find a sprinter of the past that can out do today's sprinter.
    or
    2. find another sport when past athletes can out do today best.

  12. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    2. find another sport when past athletes can out do today best.
    On average, or just 1 v 1? Because I'm pretty sure Pelé has yet to be topped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonMichael View Post
    Cooler, I know you are very smart. Thanks for pointing that out. And I know you always want to point others out that are stupid. But he was stating that the present players can outdo the past players, which he brought in the comparison of speed between past and present competitors in the same field, which I disagree, especially in court games.
    I was not comparing roddick with the sprinter. I was comparing roddick with previous tennis players. I was not comparing Tiger with sprinters. I was comparing Tiger with previous Golf players. I was just trying to say that even with great strides made in speed and power, we still have the best players not needing to have the best speed and the highest power to be a champion.
    Seems you are very condescending when others make opinions that are not to your high standards. And I did not cherry pick my statements to make me look good. So I shall stop here, and you can carry on with your sarcasm with others.
    But you also have to note that the guy with the fastest serve doesn't mean he's the best player player though, look at golf, they have the longest drive contest and those guys can smoke even Tiger Woods in distance but they will never make the PGA tour because they suck in the other aspect of the game. I think you have to look at the overall package of the player, and today's players are faster, more powerful and fit than players of previous years due to technological advances and their training methods etc... Look at Bojrn Borg in tennis when he tried to come back, he was a top tennis player, but when he tried to come back he got beat by even journeyman players... I know you're trying to say there are things like court sense and intelligence, but if you don't have the speed and power behind your play, it just won't work... Look at F1, Lewis Hamilton, Kimi Raikonen and Alonso are supposed to be the best drivers out there, but they didn't win this year because their car sucked... (Kinda like you have the technique and smarts but you are just not fast and powerful enough)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Destricto_Ense View Post
    On average, or just 1 v 1? Because I'm pretty sure Pelé has yet to be topped.
    good question.
    I say it is more so valid for 1 vs 1 or 1 vs all others(ex. bolt vs other sprinters).
    In a team sport, it is harder to assess individual's true ability relative to other players of other teams. By just adding 1 extra player, like in doubles, the comparision is complex enough already. Look at the thread about who's the best MD pair, hard to say, that's why i did not participate discussion in the thread, it can't be or it's hard to be conclusive about it. For soccer team with even more players, comparison is even harder. However, i have to say pele is the best in his own time period framework. Even for Rudy Hartono for winning record # of AE titles, is he's the best, i say no. He accomplished that because there were very little competition at his time period. Viver had told us that chinese players were even better but do not play due to politics.
    To dominate a sport today is way way harder than the olden days.
    Last edited by cooler; 11-08-2009 at 02:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonvan View Post
    But you also have to note that the guy with the fastest serve doesn't mean he's the best player player though, look at golf, they have the longest drive contest and those guys can smoke even Tiger Woods in distance but they will never make the PGA tour because they suck in the other aspect of the game. I think you have to look at the overall package of the player, and today's players are faster, more powerful and fit than players of previous years due to technological advances and their training methods etc... Look at Bojrn Borg in tennis when he tried to come back, he was a top tennis player, but when he tried to come back he got beat by even journeyman players... I know you're trying to say there are things like court sense and intelligence, but if you don't have the speed and power behind your play, it just won't work... Look at F1, Lewis Hamilton, Kimi Raikonen and Alonso are supposed to be the best drivers out there, but they didn't win this year because their car sucked... (Kinda like you have the technique and smarts but you are just not fast and powerful enough)
    thx for the additonal info.
    I had pounded the table on this topic many times before.
    I'm willing to exclude power in the comparion.
    Without speed, the old greats make great pro coaches, not pro players.

    Oh some would say, not fair comparison, they are older now but if u compare them (previous generation pros with today's pros, at similar age and condition, the answer is still obvious. My advice to them, just good watch some old films on how fast and powerful those previous pros play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    u r wasting a lot of energy beating around the bush and repeating yourself.
    Why don't u save some energy with just giving me 1 reply for:

    In order to prove wongegg's example as invalid, u have to find:
    1. find a sprinter of the past that can out do today's sprinter.
    or
    2. find another sport when past athletes can out do today best.

    Pete Sampras did beat Roger Federer in an exhibition match recently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonMichael View Post
    Pete Sampras did beat Roger Federer in an exhibition match recently.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkxDcA4qnsA
    sampras has to take a rest break even when he didn't has to hit the ball.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-1qYRqf4DA highlights
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esKqY...1&feature=fvwp did u got it backward?

    enuff said about sampras vs federer
    Last edited by cooler; 11-08-2009 at 06:46 PM.

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