Past vs Present...

**ctjcad** · 12-09-2009, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by cooler

i'm back

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Originally Posted by cooler

again, i question their judgement.
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..thank you for your feedback, cooler. I guess you are entitled to have your own view as well as others are entitled to theirs. This topic and question is one of those which is open to debate and is really an open-ended one.

Now, how about some other BCers', who've watched YY or ZJH play, views or thoughts or opinions??..

**AlanY** · 12-09-2009, 06:37 AM

surely with the ever increasing computer power that we have it must be possible to model all the pass and present players at their best and fight it out in the virtual world once and for all. cant be the difficult really, any takers?

**abedeng** · 12-09-2009, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by ctjcad

..thank you for your feedback, cooler. I guess you are entitled to have your own view as well as others are entitled to theirs. This topic and question is one of those which is open to debate and is really an open-ended one.

Now, how about some other BCers', who've watched YY or ZJH play, views or thoughts or opinions??..

ZJH has probably the best deception in town bar nobody else. One might even say that his game very much depends on his deception working. This can be negated by the best defence in town during that time (Foo Kok Keong, Ardi Wiranata).

Thus I would say that today's best players will run rings around ZJH. In fact, players like LD and LCW, even SDK/PSH could win by using their defence alone and keeping the rally going.

On YY, it is true that he has among the best attacks and one of the better (not the best) defences of his time. However, in terms of penetration, I would not think that he could pass through LD or LCW's tight defences, and obviously, these two guys very good reaction speed for him to outmaneuver, even with his superior deception. His smashes are steep and the angles are difficult to return, but in terms of outright power, I would say that his predecessors Han Jian and Luan Jin are more powerful.

Cooler is mostly right that most players of the previous era do more leapsmashing rather than full body jumpsmash. However, the more powerful ones, eg. Liem Swie King, Han Jian and Luan Jin really blasted full body smashes.

However, I must say that deception is better among the players of the previous era than the current batch, maybe because the emphasis to outmaneuver your opponent then is less dependent on power and speed. There seems to be less deception now. If two players of these different eras were to go head to head, I do not think deception of the previous era alone has what it takes to negate the power and speed combo of the current players.

**george@chongwei** · 12-09-2009, 08:04 AM

wow, so many 'useful' badminton information for me to see here

**cooler** · 12-09-2009, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by abedeng

However, I must say that deception is better among the players of the previous era than the current batch, maybe because the emphasis to outmaneuver your opponent then is less dependent on power and speed. There seems to be less deception now. If two players of these different eras were to go head to head, I do not think deception of the previous era alone has what it takes to negate the power and speed combo of the current players.

the reason is previous era games are of slower pace which allow for more opportunities to do deception. Once the game pace is increased from both sides, speed will neuter the deception component

Deception is quite useless when u r playing catch up. When u r a pace ahead of your opponent, deception is applicable, and come easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS7ILAbETRY
see? LD use deception too, when he feel he is steps ahead of KJ

ask wong CH, why he didn't use deception on LD to get out a bad situation? LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfxc0...eature=related

**cooler** · 12-09-2009, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by AlanY

surely with the ever increasing computer power that we have it must be possible to model all the pass and present players at their best and fight it out in the virtual world once and for all. cant be the difficult really, any takers?

check over here

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...ad.php?t=68378

**cooler** · 12-09-2009, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by ctjcad

..thank you for your feedback, cooler. I guess you are entitled to have your own view as well as others are entitled to theirs. This topic and question is one of those which is open to debate and is really an open-ended one.

Now, how about some other BCers', who've watched YY or ZJH play, views or thoughts or opinions??..

"Person B (another M'sian fellow, older gentleman, in his 50s): He told me, in his opinion, LD would win simply because he's a smarter player esp. late in the match."

funny how the 'younger' interviewee's think they know more about YY/ZJH than this older gentlemen who likely have had seen YY/ZJH more to draw his conclusion?

**cooler** · 12-09-2009, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by george@chongwei

wow, so many 'useful' badminton information for me to see here

did we got u speechless?lol

**ctjcad** · 12-09-2009, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by cooler

funny how the 'younger' interviewee's think they know more about YY/ZJH than this older gentlemen who likely have had seen YY/ZJH more to draw his conclusion?

..like i mentioned, there's a whole gamut of different opinions. Some older folks think YY could beat LD & some don't; and some younger generation folks think YY could beat LD and some don't.
In general, most of them told me it's really hard to compare and judge. That's why the comparison was simply based on physical abilities and techniques and a bit on the mental aspect.

Thank you, abedeng, for sharing your input. Finally, what i've been somewhat waiting to read.

How about equipments (racket) used during that time and now? Would it make a difference? How about the scoring system used?

**Wong8Egg** · 12-09-2009, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by george@chongwei

wow, so many 'useful' badminton information for me to see here

Yes, very useful information indeed. We are comparing between each skill category and giving real examples.
Rather than saying "player from past will do better if playing under OSS and that's the fact. PERIOD".

**cooler** · 12-09-2009, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by ctjcad

..thank you for your feedback, cooler. I guess you are entitled to have your own view as well as others are entitled to theirs. This topic and question is one of those which is open to debate and is really an open-ended one.

Now, how about some other BCers', who've watched YY or ZJH play, views or thoughts or opinions??..

yup, like global warming, the warmists phil jones and david suzuki would say, the science is complete and settled.

however in this past vs present comparsion, we only have to look back less than 100 years. In global warming debate, some people can't comprehend anything beyond 1 century old

( staying within the topic of past vs preseet,

back in the dinosaur age, when CO2 level is way way higher than today, the earth was lush GREEN and teaming with plant and animal life. I believe u know that adam and eve were running around naked in the garden, right?

)

**cooler** · 12-10-2009, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by cooler

ask wong CH, why he didn't use deception on LD to get out a bad situation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfxc0...eature=related

minor correction on my last comment. Drop shots are deceptive shots but i like to stress again, when WCH is a step behind LD, WCH's deceptive drop shots are not effective. LD knows the replies are likely to be drop shots, even if WCH try to disguise it as much as he can.

**Badmintan** · 12-10-2009, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by cooler

minor correction on my last comment. Drop shots are deceptive shots but i like to stress again, when WCH is a step behind LD, WCH's deceptive drop shots are not effective. LD knows the replies are likely to be drop shots, even if WCH try to disguise it as much as he can.

WCH made a mistake there, should have punch clear on his forehand. Since LD is already close to the net, Wong should have clear to give himself time to return to center. Of course WCH must prepared to recieve a jumpsmash by SuperDan.

WCH felt for Lin Dan's hold and flick, frontcourt deception.

**abedeng** · 12-10-2009, 06:49 AM

I really do not think modern equipment will help the older generation of players to upstage the new generation based on their skills alone. This equipment and playing style adopted by the specific generation of players, they go hand in hand. YY, ZJH, Frost and the like would have been trained to maximize what they had then. Even if given newer equipment, their training will not allow them to maximize the potential.

The explosive style of LD, LCW is often assisted by better equipment (shoes, racquets, super high tension stringing). With the current emphasis on power, elevation, speed, it really makes no sense for players to play rally style ala Prakash Padukone, Frost, or being defensive minded like Ardy, Foo Kok Keong. It is all about pummelling your opponent into submission from the word go.

As for scoring system, it would not modify the results at all, 'cos practically all the current batch of players are very fit. Whereas in the previous era, you could see differences between superfit guys (Ardy, Foo Kok Keong, Xiong Guobao), fit (Han Jian, Yang Yang, Frost, Padukone, Liem Swie King, Rashid Sidek) and not so fit (Misbun Sidek, Luan Jin, Zhao Jianhua).