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  1. #1
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    Default Suggestion: Stop New Members Selling on BC!

    Stop New Members Selling on BC!

    I know the title may sound harsh to some but the intention is to protect buyers.

    Having been using the forum for a number of years now, I have seen a lot of fake racquets being sold on the forum. Sometimes these may be from unsuspecting members who were unaware that they were fake but more often, these seem to be from those who are intentionally deluding others by selling fakes.

    I appreciate that it is the responsibility of the buyer to check the authenticity of the racquets before buying and BC has no affliation with the sale, however I feel that this is not always fully possible, and as a forum more can be done to help the buyers.

    There are countless instances where new members have signed up to BC, with zero post counts, purely to sell racquets and I have seen a significant number of these which I would personally deem as fakes.

    I feel that by allowing anyone to just come on here, with no post counts, history, feedback or forum credibility to sell items is very risky. There used to be a time when fakes were easy to spot, but nowadays even armed with serial codes we cannot be 100% sure. Photos may not be of the actual item, and fakes can be very difficult to spot.

    I know the forum cannot be responsible for irradicating illegitimate sales, but I feel the forum can help to reduce this risk for buyers and to help deter these scammers.

    My Suggestions

    1. Prevent members with post counts less than a certain number from posting in the buy/sell forum. This number can be determined between the admin staff. I would suggest something in the order of 100 "credible" posts. A lot of other forums I use have this in place as it deters scammers from selling. It also gives some sort of insight/history of the member.
    2. Seller feedback ratings. This can help buyers decide the trustworthiness of the seller.
    3. Sale/Seller Testimonials. This can be captured in a single thread whereby buyers can simply write a short note in a pre-determined format (like the fake racquet identification format) about the sale which would allow for easy searching for future potential buyers.
    4. Photos of the actual item for sale to have a written note stating the member username and date photographed with the actual item. This goes some way to prevent scammers from taking photos off the internet and passing them off as their own.
    As I stated earlier, I agree that it is not the responsibility of the forum to police each and every sale on the forum but with some new rules and features it could help discourage scammers and "clean up" the buy/sell forum.

    I hope the BC admin will give this some consideration

  2. #2
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    I have bought and sold stuff on this buy/sell forum. My rule of thumb is to look at the post count. If it's less than 10...chances are they aren't real badminton fans and are just wanting to make a quick buck. And I look at when they joined (ie. joining same month and selling same month) and their post history.

    If I'm really suspicious...I ask for a photo of the racket with a newspaper current date. If they can't even do that...no deal. It proves that the seller actually has the racket.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanucksDynasty View Post
    I have bought and sold stuff on this buy/sell forum. My rule of thumb is to look at the post count. If it's less than 10...chances are they aren't real badminton fans and are just wanting to make a quick buck. And I look at when they joined (ie. joining same month and selling same month) and their post history.

    If I'm really suspicious...I ask for a photo of the racket with a newspaper current date. If they can't even do that...no deal. It proves that the seller actually has the racket.
    Yeah, I do the same. But if you were determined to sell a fake racquet, 10 posts is pretty easy to get. I would suggest something like 100 posts. I know some of us don't have that much so say (me included - only 500 posts in 8 years!) but if you were a scammer and intended to sell a fake item, 100 posts may just put you off and turn you towards ebay as it's far easier.

  4. #4
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    Totally agree, 100 posts are sufficient enough.

  5. #5
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    what!! 100 posts... .....................

    i spend more of my time here buying than selling though..

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by vajrasattva View Post
    what!! 100 posts... .....................

    i spend more of my time here buying than selling though..
    Well, the biggest risk in any transaction lies mainly with the buyer as he/she has to pay first with no assurance that the goods will be delivered. So it makes sense to protect the buyer as much as possible. The seller is protected by paypal, banks etc and doesn't really take on much risk.

    As you have pointed out, like most of us, you spend more time here buying than selling. So it probably isn't a hugely inconvenient for you. If new members wanted to sell there are various other options they can use.

    I personally think the forum should be used first and foremost for discussions and reference, with the buying/selling section as a bonus secondary feature. With that in mind, surely by allowing members with zero post counts to sell on BC without intending to contribute to the forum is just taking advantage of the freedom that the forum offers.

    To me this just seems like a loop-hole that needs to be tightened for the better of the forum and its members.

    I'm surprised that not a single moderator has commented on this, despite the interest from members but deciding to "sticky" another related but unhelpful thread.

  7. #7
    Moderator drifit's Avatar
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    I have proposed the post count limit and yet getting feedback from admin quite some time ago.
    so far, we are quite lenient towards BC members. we are all sportsman and sportswoman. yet, there is still a small number of members mis-use the buy/sell thread. few created multiple usenames just to do selling. some registered as member just for selling.
    badmintoncentral always a place(forum) for badminton lovers share their views. buy/sell section is just a place helping members trade off their used badminton items.
    we will further discuss on this matter and for the time being, we will monitor as it goes.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by drifit View Post
    I have proposed the post count limit and yet getting feedback from admin quite some time ago.
    so far, we are quite lenient towards BC members. we are all sportsman and sportswoman. yet, there is still a small number of members mis-use the buy/sell thread. few created multiple usenames just to do selling. some registered as member just for selling.
    badmintoncentral always a place(forum) for badminton lovers share their views. buy/sell section is just a place helping members trade off their used badminton items.
    we will further discuss on this matter and for the time being, we will monitor as it goes.
    Drifit, thank you for commenting on this, it's much appreciated.

    I note that BC has been quite relaxed towards such members who abuse the buy/sell forum to date, but having noticed over the years what appears to be a growing trend I think it is time BC clamped down on these members who think they're making a fool out of us and mocking the good nature of the forum. (I sympathise with the "identifying fake racquet gurus" who must have been working flat out over the years! )

    I hope other moderators will consider this favorably too and instigate some house rules in the buy/sell forum.

  9. #9
    Moderator drifit's Avatar
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    rest assure that we are keeping eyes on buy/sell section.
    for your info, there are many threads being deleted. some are issued with warning. as for multi usernames, they are banned.
    some just slipped through our fingers as we are not able to keep track everyone.
    a report will enable us act faster, just click (!) sign.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by drifit View Post
    rest assure that we are keeping eyes on buy/sell section.
    for your info, there are many threads being deleted. some are issued with warning. as for multi usernames, they are banned.
    some just slipped through our fingers as we are not able to keep track everyone.
    a report will enable us act faster, just click (!) sign.
    Here lies the difficulty. The moderators are not the police.

    My suggestion is to close the *buy and sell* forum as it seems to create more problems than it solves.

    I would have hoped buyers show a more alertness when buying second hand items instead of blaming moderators. I always remind people *caveat emptor* principle. Perhaps badminton second hand buyers are a more gullible population?

    For us as moderators, we have to be impartial and you know it's not an easy task most of the time.

  11. #11
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    the buy/sell section is extremely helpful for people to look for racquets that suit that play though.. there's no where else on the internet where this is carried out so well unlike at BC.

    and its usually the nubs (me included), that need to cycle through more racquets due to age, due to poor strength that cannot be improved too much before injury sets in etc..

    if possible, i definitely wouldnt mind to pay for listing things for sale or paying to buy off BC, maybe a few dollars per post, to allow the cost to go into hosting of BC, and some to go towards someone in the trade able to check and match serial numbers

    a strong disclaimer is necessary too, to let the platform stay, and allow BC moderators to be non-liable for all trades that are carried out.

    you'll never know the joys of me buying a z-slash or a ns9900, recently after using a mp99-at900t in tandem for the past six-seven years.. and BC allowing me to save $90 and $60 respectively for the toys..

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by drifit View Post
    I have proposed the post count limit and yet getting feedback from admin quite some time ago.
    so far, we are quite lenient towards BC members. we are all sportsman and sportswoman. yet, there is still a small number of members mis-use the buy/sell thread. few created multiple usenames just to do selling. some registered as member just for selling.
    badmintoncentral always a place(forum) for badminton lovers share their views. buy/sell section is just a place helping members trade off their used badminton items.
    we will further discuss on this matter and for the time being, we will monitor as it goes.
    I think we all agree that maximum freedom for the Internet as a whole is the best way. Having this as the basis for BC is also a good thing, I think. I, for one, discovered the forum specifically because I wanted to buy a second hand racquet and joined it just for this reason. Then, I also discovered all the other topics on here and was happy to get involved and become a part of the community. I could very easily see this happening to sellers too - someone looking for a place to sell badminton equipment independent of big corporations like ebay/paypal and directly to fans, then getting absorbed into the community. There are people who take advantage, yes, but they are not that many and by cutting off people/imposing restrictions (which burdens the whole community), it's better to just tolerate it.

    It depends also on your goals for BC, I suppose. If you see BC as a place mainly for discussions, etc., and you want to limit buying/selling, then go ahead. But if you want BC to be a virtual reflection of the "real world" badminton ecosystem, then you must allow maximum freedom and tolerate the bad with the good (but also can get rid of the extremely bad, ha ha).

    One way forward could be having an exclusive "commercial section" subforum in the buy/sell forum where people who just want to trade without discussing can go about their business, and the rest can go on with theirs.

    Just my half pence worth

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    Here lies the difficulty. The moderators are not the police.

    My suggestion is to close the *buy and sell* forum as it seems to create more problems than it solves.

    I would have hoped buyers show a more alertness when buying second hand items instead of blaming moderators. I always remind people *caveat emptor* principle. Perhaps badminton second hand buyers are a more gullible population?

    For us as moderators, we have to be impartial and you know it's not an easy task most of the time.
    Cheung, I agree with you in that moderators are not here to enforce the law, but I feel that closing the buy/sell forum would be over-reacting and unfair to the majority who abide by the rules and are genuine regular members of BC. The features/new rules I mentioned above would, in my opinion reduce the amount of work moderators would need to do as it will help "filter out" some of these scammers in the first instance.

    I'm not suggesting that my proposals above are a sure-fix, but it's a start. I personally believe that by imposing some new rules/features to the buy and sell forum will make a significant positive change to the forum. I've seen similar rules applied in other site forums with good results so I can only imagine this will contribute to improving BCF in the long run and hopefully be welcomed by its members.

    Sometimes, showing alertness is not always enough. If people are determined enough to scam buyers, they will find ways to do it. Just as a determined hacker will get into any computer system. Yes, the buyer has responsibility for satisfying themselves that the sale is genuine etc, but if the facilities are not there to help them make that decision better, there is not a lot for them to go by.
    At the end of the day, the "fault" here is not with the buyer, the fault is with the scammer.

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