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  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Footwork_816 View Post
    If those pictures above are what professional players really do to work out then their coaches have no idea what they are doing. One why is all I see machines and no free weight exercises? and two how come they are not doing big compound lifts that most athletes should be doing: squats, deadlifts, bench press, rows, etc. Also, if I was a coach I would not make them do many if any at all isolation exercises like bicep curls

    I haven't read the posts above so I'm not sure what everyone has recommended but I would follow the contrast method that you can read about here: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...size_and_power

    This way you will get increased strength and be able to use your strength faster which will give you power. If all you did was strength work and no speed work then you would not see too much improvement. Its the reason someone can have a huge squat but be a lot slower than someone who can squat half as much. I would read a lot of the articles on t-nation. They have great information
    Agreed on the machine work. I would expect them to be doing a lot of squats, deadlifts, maybe even oly lifts? My only guess is that since their season is underway, and the all england isn't too far away, they're training endurance with the machines. Since machines and iso movements don't require much technique, there isn't the risk of losing form and injuring yourself once the lactic acid burn starts (again, just a guess). I'm sure there's a reason for it though, since the CBA would surely hire reputable trainers to train the best players in the world. It does seem weird, though. From what Mathias Boe said in the interview I mentioned earlier, the Danes seem to like free weights.
    Thanks for the article on the contrast training. T-nation is great. Everything is written by qualified and accomplished coaches and athletes. I frequently read articles (not sure if you read all the previous posts, but I actually cited one earlier), but I haven't seen that one before. Definitely looks like it can be applied to badminton, and I think I'll be working contrast training into my routine.

  2. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by urameatball View Post
    well, it's easy to mistake your intentions when you express interest to lift like a pro, and compare your physical attributes to pros.
    Then clarifying by wanting to bulk up A BIT.

    I read in an article Lin Dan and Michael Jordan can both run a 10k in 28min. My friend runs competitively and does 10k in under 40min, I've never run 10k before so I guess it'll take me over an hour, yet I'm much faster on court than my friend. I also jump higher than people with much bigger&stronger legs. So beware of using numbers and benchmarks as indicators... improving those numbers doesn't necessarily mean you'll be better on court.

    In other news, fat people tend to smash harder, so I suggest you eat butter and gain some fat, LOL
    I enjoy weightlifting, but badminton comes first, so the main reason why I wanted to know how much the pros lift is so I know when to stop gaining strength and focus on other things. As rogerv2 said, strength in badminton is likely only helpful up to a certain point, so my guess is that the pros are only strong enough to be able to do all of the movements their sport requires. I'll keep the strength vs court performance thing in mind - if I'm still gaining strength and not seeing a difference on court, I'll refocus my training/lifting program. That being said, I'm pretty happy with how much my increased strength is doing for me on court. Thanks for the info on running times, I guess I have a long way to go when it comes to cardio. I'd be at about 40 minutes for 10k.
    ...but having a big smash is cool, too. Can I run 10k in 28 minutes with a beer gut?

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by OHMAHGAWDZ View Post
    Agreed on the machine work. I would expect them to be doing a lot of squats, deadlifts, maybe even oly lifts? My only guess is that since their season is underway, and the all england isn't too far away, they're training endurance with the machines. Since machines and iso movements don't require much technique, there isn't the risk of losing form and injuring yourself once the lactic acid burn starts (again, just a guess). I'm sure there's a reason for it though, since the CBA would surely hire reputable trainers to train the best players in the world. It does seem weird, though. From what Mathias Boe said in the interview I mentioned earlier, the Danes seem to like free weights.
    Thanks for the article on the contrast training. T-nation is great. Everything is written by qualified and accomplished coaches and athletes. I frequently read articles (not sure if you read all the previous posts, but I actually cited one earlier), but I haven't seen that one before. Definitely looks like it can be applied to badminton, and I think I'll be working contrast training into my routine.
    Lol yea I love t-nation, have been reading their articles for over a year now. Ehhh even if you were training endurance free weight would be better than machines. Only reason I can see is that they are scared of injuring themselves but that's a really lame excuse...Most pro's will take the benefit harder-to-do exercises can give and take the risk of getting injured which won't happen as long as you aren't being stupid.

    Another error I just saw is they are putting 25 lb plates on one arm and smiling...One it should be on both arms to prevent muscle imbalances which can cause injury and two if they are smiling the weight obviously isn't heavy enough to force the players out of their comfort zone and force their bodies to grow stronger.

    I wouldn't stop gaining strength or power if I were you. True it won't cover for bad play but it can always help and there is no real limit. Just make sure you have a good balance of both
    Last edited by Footwork_816; 01-27-2012 at 01:49 PM.

  4. #21
    Regular Member urameatball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Footwork_816 View Post
    Another error I just saw is they are putting 25 lb plates on one arm and smiling...One it should be on both arms to prevent muscle imbalances which can cause injury and two if they are smiling the weight obviously isn't heavy enough to force the players out of their comfort zone and force their bodies to grow stronger.
    what other tips do you have for the world's most successful, most consistent, and highest performing team of professional badminton players?

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    Quote Originally Posted by urameatball View Post
    what other tips do you have for the world's most successful, most consistent, and highest performing team of professional badminton players?
    Just because they are good at badminton does not mean they are really powerful or work out the right way. There's a kid here where I live who's ranked A and wins the U25 divisions of the tournaments he plays in (he's 17) and doesn't work out. They are just insane at badminton and in all sports skill will beat physical performance.

    I really do doubt that these players work out the right way though and bet they would be a lot better if they did. Just look at the players, none of them look close to being as strong as they could be. No badminton player I have seen has a big chest or back and the muscle definition I do see from players is probably because those players have low body fat. Look at sprinters and you'll see what a badminton player and all athletes should look like

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    Regular Member urameatball's Avatar
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    I hope national teams around the world can see your posts so they can learn from you.

    I also hope people training for marathons can learn from you as well because the world's top marathoners look like walking skeletons. Imagine how much faster they can be if they look like a sprinter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by urameatball View Post
    I hope national teams around the world can see your posts so they can learn from you.

    I also hope people training for marathons can learn from you as well because the world's top marathoners look like walking skeletons. Imagine how much faster they can be if they look like a sprinter.
    I hope so too. Marathon runner's are different. Their main focus is endurance and the muscles actually shrink when you go to that extreme for endurance. Obviously depending on the sport there is a balance of explosive power and endurance. Besides give me an example where speed and power is needed where the athletes aren't jacked?

    I would say in badminton you need to be just as explosive and fast and is one of the most explosive sports. Plus, the faster you can get to the bird the more energy you preserve because you aren't taking deep lunges so in case you believe badminton takes an extreme amount of endurance remember pro's use less energy than us to move around

    btw dude your sarcasm is really effing hilarious. How about you open your mind a little and become a bit skeptic. Just because all badminton players work out the same way doesn't mean its the right way and you can look at other athletes in other sports and compare them. Some of the stuff badminton players did in the 1970s that everyone thought was most the most efficient way to generate power might not be used anymore bc a better alternative way was found. Just because everyone does something does not mean its right or is the best way especially when there are way better athletes you can compare to

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    going back to the original post...
    i too have asked these questions, how to incorporate weight training into badminton and found it hard to find out what weights the pros do - but i agree with what has been said so far, polymetric exercises like skipping. but in the gym? im not sure heavy weights are best... do pros really do 2x bodyweight squats? thats no easy task. i have seen lin dan training doing the clean and jerk with a reasonable weight (probably 60-70 kg) but thats it xDDD literaly the only weights ive seen pros doing. they must be doing loads a few more.. but im sure they would be doing explosive power exerises like jump squats, lunges and definitely clean and jerk and exercises like that.

    and as for the skill vs strength debate... of course some 'natrual' athletes seem to have never touched weights, like roger federer. but look at murray... reached no2 and he just isnt a natrual player. terrible examples in a badminton forum, but you know what i mean. and for novices, ofc the more physicaly able player -with the same badminton experience as his non-physical training opponent- will win more, and probably end up playing more because of this.

    bring on the (correct) training!

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalan View Post
    going back to the original post...
    i too have asked these questions, how to incorporate weight training into badminton and found it hard to find out what weights the pros do - but i agree with what has been said so far, polymetric exercises like skipping. but in the gym? im not sure heavy weights are best... do pros really do 2x bodyweight squats? thats no easy task. i have seen lin dan training doing the clean and jerk with a reasonable weight (probably 60-70 kg) but thats it xDDD literaly the only weights ive seen pros doing. they must be doing loads a few more.. but im sure they would be doing explosive power exerises like jump squats, lunges and definitely clean and jerk and exercises like that.

    and as for the skill vs strength debate... of course some 'natrual' athletes seem to have never touched weights, like roger federer. but look at murray... reached no2 and he just isnt a natrual player. terrible examples in a badminton forum, but you know what i mean. and for novices, ofc the more physicaly able player -with the same badminton experience as his non-physical training opponent- will win more, and probably end up playing more because of this.

    bring on the (correct) training!
    Heavy weights for low reps is the best for strength if thats your goal. Yea same I've seen a vid of LCW lifting and if that really is how much he can lift then I can already squat and bench more than him...(he was squatting like 185 and benching 135).

    Well I'm sure most of the top badminton athletes do work with weights I'm just saying from what I've seen (in those pics and the LCW vid) that pro's aren't working out their bodies right and could be a lot stronger and powerful

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Footwork_816 View Post
    Just because they are good at badminton does not mean they are really powerful or work out the right way. There's a kid here where I live who's ranked A and wins the U25 divisions of the tournaments he plays in (he's 17) and doesn't work out. They are just insane at badminton and in all sports skill will beat physical performance.

    I really do doubt that these players work out the right way though and bet they would be a lot better if they did. Just look at the players, none of them look close to being as strong as they could be. No badminton player I have seen has a big chest or back and the muscle definition I do see from players is probably because those players have low body fat. Look at sprinters and you'll see what a badminton player and all athletes should look like
    Some of the Korean men are fairly muscular. Jung Jae Sung and Ko Sung Hyun come to mind. I think we don't see big chests because that's probably the only muscle group that's fairly useless for badminton.
    I think that doubters of heavy weight should take a look at oly lifters for some perspective - those people are the personification of explosive power. Of course they do plenty of speed work as well. But power=force(comes from strength)/time(lessened by speed of muscle contraction), and a lot of the responses in this thread have overlooked the force portion of that formula.
    The way I see things is strength = maximum force you can exert, speed = how quickly you can get to that max force. One is much less useful without the other, which means strength training does play a role in an explosive sport such as badminton. I started this thread to find out exactly how much.
    I've decided that I'm going to continue weights, but altering the program and intensity depending on the time of year, and doing frequent speed work.
    But even if the purpose of my starting this thread is pretty much fulfilled, I'm still curious as to how strong/fit the pros are. It would provide some good motivation ("can you run 10k in 28 minutes yet? THEN GET OFF THE COUCH" :P). If anyone knows anything, you will have my gratitude for posting .

    ...and as far as the marathon runner comment (too lazy to quote it ), that's comparing apples and oranges, and you know it.

    do pros really do 2x bodyweight squats?
    My max is 1.8x bodyweight right now, and I've been lifting for 6 months, started at 1.2x bodyweight. You'd be surprised at how quickly you can gain strength on a good program, especially the first few months. And comparing my legs to some pro MD player's legs, I'm pretty sure that the pros can do much more than that.
    Last edited by OHMAHGAWDZ; 01-27-2012 at 07:43 PM.

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    Theres a video on youtube of Gade squatting 5 x 150. If this was his 5RM, and it may not be, it would put his 1rm around 175. If Gade weighs 70-75 kg this puts his squat at well over 2 times BW. LCW is lighter and squats reportedly over 200kg 1RM.

    Low rep weight training on exercises like the squat is essential and develops full body strength.

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlp View Post
    Theres a video on youtube of Gade squatting 5 x 150. If this was his 5RM, and it may not be, it would put his 1rm around 175. If Gade weighs 70-75 kg this puts his squat at well over 2 times BW. LCW is lighter and squats reportedly over 200kg 1RM.

    Low rep weight training on exercises like the squat is essential and develops full body strength.
    Niceee I just saw that video. This is how athletes should train . Where have you seen he can squat over 200kg??? There's a vid on youtube and it looks like 185 lbs is too heavy for him...

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    LCW was seen squatting nearly 200 before training prior to worlds and his team said over 200. A double bodyweight squat is acheiveable by most with proper training

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlp View Post
    Theres a video on youtube of Gade squatting 5 x 150. If this was his 5RM, and it may not be, it would put his 1rm around 175. If Gade weighs 70-75 kg this puts his squat at well over 2 times BW. LCW is lighter and squats reportedly over 200kg 1RM.

    Low rep weight training on exercises like the squat is essential and develops full body strength.
    Thanks for the info, looks like pro players are pretty strong. I wonder if doubles players are even stronger than singles? time to search all over the internet .

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    Thumbs up looks like I'm late to the party...

    Hi,
    I guess I'm a bit late on this thread so I will get straight to the point .

    Malaysia-Team.pdfTraining.pdfI think you are spot on with strenght training: Maximal strenght IS very important to badminton performance, especially if you say it's your weak point. Alot of badminton players fail to understand that plyometrics and endurance training are only good to some extend and that weight lifting is a must if you want to compete at a high level in badminton.

    To this post are linked 2 very interesting articles which sumarize the numbers of a few pros: the malaysian team players and danish player Poul Erik Hoyer Larsen.

    I will also link an article from about 2 years ago written by a great S&C coach who trains top brittish badmnton players, I think you'll find it quite interesting.

    http://www.brendanchaplin.co.uk/buil...nton-athletes/

    A few important points (in my opinion at least): For squats, the weight you lift depends on how far down you go when you squat. Some people brag about being able to lift enormous weights but they fail do go down past 90 degrees. As a general guideline, coach Charles Poliquin states that in order to compete in the olympics, a FULL squat of 2x BW is plenty. This is a full squat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xFm9q1HBKY performed by a professional athlete (obviously not a badminton player though...).

    Another important point about knowing if you are "bulking up" too much is your vertical jump: vertical jump depends on your RELATIVE strenght, which means that if you gained 5 pounds of muscle, but improved your vertical jump by say 2 inches, you are training the right muscle groups and in the right way. But if you gain 5 pounds of muscle and your vertical jump decreases by 2 inches, then it means you need to change your training because the weight you gained did not help you become more explosive.

    I hope that helps.

    Mathieu

    edit sorry the links to the PDF articles are at the begining of my post and their names are "training" and "malaysia team", I just don't know how to change where they are placed...

  16. #33
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Footwork_816 View Post
    Niceee I just saw that video. This is how athletes should train . Where have you seen he can squat over 200kg??? There's a vid on youtube and it looks like 185 lbs is too heavy for him...
    Mind to post the video here?

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    Clearly lifts like squat, deadlift, powerclean, even bench are fairly technical and you need to be taught how to do them

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