User Tag List

Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Santa Clara, California, United States
    Posts
    35,939
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default VIDEO: Finishing knot with no tension loss

    some might have seen this knot done in some of my video as well as AK's stringfest video.

    here is the same knot shot with more clarity and detail. i have been using this knot for over 200 string jobs and it is perfect. AK says we need an extra half-hitch but i have skipped it to keep it compact and never found any slippage.

    the key part of this knot is how it allows tensioning on the string using a pair of pliers and it locks the tension in. that eliminates any slack on the knot.


  2. #2
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    GMT-04:00
    Posts
    1,437
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The resulting loop is actually a [Wilson] Pro knot, which is really an under-hand knot. An alternative to try is to go underneath the anchor string before going up through the loop to obtain a slightly bigger knot, which I have switched to using from the Parnell knot.

    I find it interesting that quite a number of stringers on this forum say that this knot is too small and compact for a good tie-off knot while AK is saying that it is the best knot for fighting tension loss.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    some might have seen this knot done in some of my video as well as AK's stringfest video.

    here is the same knot shot with more clarity and detail. i have been using this knot for over 200 string jobs and it is perfect. AK says we need an extra half-hitch but i have skipped it to keep it compact and never found any slippage.

    the key part of this knot is how it allows tensioning on the string using a pair of pliers and it locks the tension in. that eliminates any slack on the knot.

    Nice knot. As an aside to your video, do you find it difficult getting the cross through the first shared grommet by the 10o'clock support!

  4. #4
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Santa Clara, California, United States
    Posts
    35,939
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coachgary View Post
    Nice knot. As an aside to your video, do you find it difficult getting the cross through the first shared grommet by the 10o'clock support!
    no! and it is because of this:

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...-a-shared-hole

  5. #5
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Santa Clara, California, United States
    Posts
    35,939
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzzards View Post
    The resulting loop is actually a [Wilson] Pro knot, which is really an under-hand knot. An alternative to try is to go underneath the anchor string before going up through the loop to obtain a slightly bigger knot, which I have switched to using from the Parnell knot.

    I find it interesting that quite a number of stringers on this forum say that this knot is too small and compact for a good tie-off knot while AK is saying that it is the best knot for fighting tension loss.
    what is an under-hand knot? is it bad?

    i have strung with this knot for the past 2 yrs and with all the ZM62 and BG66UM types up to 29lbs it has never slipped.

    AK actually moved to a different knot which i tried and failed to learn last time he showed me. it has the benefit of being able to post tension the string to eliminate slack, as well as being larger and looks nice too.

    i will try to learn that from him again next time i see him. btw AK will be one of the official stringers at the Olympics this year.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    GMT-04:00
    Posts
    1,437
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    what is an under-hand knot? is it bad?

    i have strung with this knot for the past 2 yrs and with all the ZM62 and BG66UM types up to 29lbs it has never slipped.

    AK actually moved to a different knot which i tried and failed to learn last time he showed me. it has the benefit of being able to post tension the string to eliminate slack, as well as being larger and looks nice too.

    i will try to learn that from him again next time i see him. btw AK will be one of the official stringers at the Olympics this year.
    Here is a illustrated guide to knots which I found recently:

    Name:  knotright.gif
Views: 4048
Size:  19.2 KB

    Name:  knotleft.gif
Views: 3545
Size:  19.2 KB

    If you inspect the AK-taught knot which you have been using, it is really no different at all from the first knot to the left in the picture. Apologies, the knot is actually an "overhand knot", not underhand as I mistakenly typed

    What AK did was instead of going under, he simply turned the loop around and then went through it, which is pretty ingenious

    When same knot is done on a tennis racquet it looks as such:



    The alternative I mentioned is the second one from the left, or "Irvin's Parnell", which gives a slightly bigger knot but it still has the same piece of string (number 3) that you can singe to lock the tension in before finally tightening up the knot.

    Wishing AK all the best for the Olympics

  7. #7
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Santa Clara, California, United States
    Posts
    35,939
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    i made a follow up video on tying this knot. now with narration which should clarify some part about this knot. hope it is useful.


  8. #8
    Regular Member Mark A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    St Helens, UK
    Posts
    4,207
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    If you have fixed clamps you can check how much tension you lose on your knot - just unlock the base (and not the jaws) once you've tied it. Seeing the amount of "backslide" will clue you in to an appropriate percentage to add to the last main, if you make a point of adding. There will, of course, be more tension loss as the knot beds in after stringing, but there will be a field of crosses adding a lot of friction, and most of the loss will happen in the seconds right after tying off anyway.

    For reference, the last main is roughly 17 or 18 cm long depending on the pattern (including the loop to the knot), so the clamp base would have to move 1.8 cm for there to be 10% loss. As far as my experience goes, I use the YULitle Parnell - it's easy to get tight, the tail sits flat against the frame, and my clamp base moves less than 0.5 cm when I do the tension-loss-test.

  9. #9
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Santa Clara, California, United States
    Posts
    35,939
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A View Post
    For reference, the last main is roughly 17 or 18 cm long depending on the pattern (including the loop to the knot), so the clamp base would have to move 1.8 cm for there to be 10% loss. As far as my experience goes, I use the YULitle Parnell - it's easy to get tight, the tail sits flat against the frame, and my clamp base moves less than 0.5 cm when I do the tension-loss-test.
    1.8cm is a 10% loss in length, but way way more than that in tension. or looking at it another way, a loose string with no tension will be more than 0cm.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    157
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hmm, tried this for the first time today with mixed results. Definately not as neat as i can achieve with double half hitch (probably down to practice) but also i can't seem to pull out so much slack either. Might be easier with a starting clamp (i used a flying clamp and also flat pliers) but with double hh and the rock method i can get it tighter right now, unless i'm doing something wrong. One other thing, if you pull too tight with pliers on the loop and break it you're in trouble, whereas a double hh you should still be able to get the second hitch in.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Essex, UK
    Posts
    1,083
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Tried this on my last racket, worked well. At first it wasn't obvious which way I should twist the loop but after studying Blitzzards comments it was fairly straight forwards.

    I had previously been using Yulitle's Parnell and having just had a play around with this knot using an offcut I think you can use a similar procedure to pull tension on the section outside the clamp. I'll give it a try on the next racket I string.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    India
    Posts
    18
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    What about this?




  13. #13
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Danmark
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thanks for the video. I think you would get a much better result if you shot it from the other side. This way your hands would not be in the way and it would be much easier to see what is being done with the string.

  14. #14
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Santa Clara, California, United States
    Posts
    35,939
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sneffe View Post
    Thanks for the video. I think you would get a much better result if you shot it from the other side. This way your hands would not be in the way and it would be much easier to see what is being done with the string.
    i agree. i may redo the video for clarity at a later date. but right now i am occupied by other more interesting topics.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    356
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HappySachs View Post
    Tried this on my last racket, worked well. At first it wasn't obvious which way I should twist the loop but after studying Blitzzards comments it was fairly straight forwards.

    I had previously been using Yulitle's Parnell and having just had a play around with this knot using an offcut I think you can use a similar procedure to pull tension on the section outside the clamp. I'll give it a try on the next racket I string.
    I've tried the Parnell and the this 'Pro' knot and I prefer the latter because it is a much neater knot. I haven't had any issue of slippage even at 28x30 lbs. on a .66mm string. Also you can still do the 'arching' motion to pull the slack out of the string, just like you would do with a Parnell. Usually I use a flying clamp to help me hold onto the the string while rocking it back and forth then tightening it. I usually do 10% increase tension in the last main string to compensate for any possible tension loss.

    Quick question, if I'm on a 6-point support machine with flying clamps, should I do 23x25lbs. or 24x24 lbs?

Similar Threads

  1. tension loss
    By pompey in forum Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools
    Replies: 28
    : 10-17-2011, 11:54 PM
  2. Tie off tension loss problem....
    By risingsun in forum Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools
    Replies: 9
    : 05-06-2009, 02:41 PM
  3. Tension loss?
    By Maxphi5 in forum Badminton String
    Replies: 9
    : 12-27-2008, 03:55 PM
  4. Tension loss
    By airsteins in forum Badminton String
    Replies: 11
    : 10-02-2008, 08:31 AM
  5. reasons for tension loss
    By odjn in forum Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools
    Replies: 9
    : 12-22-2004, 03:09 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •