I only play badminton socially (although at a more advanced level) so I'm not all clued up on proper stringing techniques etc. A local friend of a friend is a self acclaimed specialist in stringing but was extremely coy and evasive when I asked him what stringing equipment he uses when I was looking to get my racket restrung. I ended up getting it done elsewhere (and I think I'm glad I did) because I've since seen his work on someone else's racket and it looked pretty poor for the following reasons. The string had 4 knots (I think I read, any more than 2 knots is not good). Also, he was strongly suggesting a tension of around 14lb for someone who is a medium to hard hitter. In the end he strung the racket at 21lb which felt extremely loose for the racket owner and by my judgement. The other extremely strange thing I saw was that on the very bottom horizontal string, he wrapped the string once around each vertical string. I have never seen this before and it seemed really bizarre. Is there any justified reasons why someone would do this on a racket? Or does it just show that he is a really rubbish restringer? Any info would be great. TIA
Ok, this does not sound like trustworthy stringer. To suggest 14lb tension is ridiculous. 21lb is acceptable but mostly for novices. However there is nothing wrong with 4 knots (2-piece stringing), this is a conventional stringing method that is also adopted by Yonex. I personally prefer string 1 piece (2 knots), contrary to the opinion of a lot of stringers, I find one piece is better for maintaining tension. Also, the wrapping of the mains on the bottom cross is also normal. It's just something that stringers do to keep the mains in place. Some call it "rough and smooth", it's not tensioned and is down to personal preference as to whether to have it or not. It doesn't effect the way the racquet plays.
If it's One-Piece, Bottom-Up vs. Two-Piece, Bottom-Up, this Panda agrees with you (all else being equal). However, you should give Two-Piece, Top-Down a try and see what results you get.
I must admit I've not tried two piece top down, only two piece bottom up - so I might give it a go sometime if there's some value in doing so. Although I've not really been a fan of 2-piece stringing, my theory is that the more knots you have, the more the string bed will relax over time. But I do find that 2 piece strings are more durable. techno79, your story reminds me of someone I used to know at a club who restrung racquets using a crappy 2-point drop weight. He also had one of those yonex repair kits with the "rolling-pin" which he used for restringing racquets for begineers/low tension stringing. Having said that, I've met some really good stringers who use 2-point machines very effectively. So, it's more about the stringer than equipment imo.
All we have here is hearsay. The only way to judge this stringer is to ask his customers if they are satisfied. If you have suspicions of his quality, then safest just not to use him.
The rough and smooth stems form the days when in a match a player would spin a racket to decide serve, same as flipping a coin. Just as easy to use the logo on the handle cap or the knot direction if you really want to spin. I just restrung a racket with a rough and smooth that was put in at the bottom from new (carlton airblade 3.7s) that was pulling the mains out of alignment. Personally i hate rough and smooths, but prefer the idea of 2 piece stringing, although i've not tried one piece (mostly cos i've never had any problems with how i've been going).
there are two myths there. one is one piece vs. two pieces. most people claim that having extra knot will likely end up with more tension loss. frankly, if there is any tension loss, it cannot be due to the knot directly. if it is, it will involve slippage of the knot and given how i have seen a racket string over its lifetime on a racket, i have never seen a knot slip. if there were any slip, the little (around 0.5cm) of loose end will come off and the knot will be untied. my experience from my own string job is there there is not even 1mm of slippage. the only other potential source of tension loss is the tying process. you need to look at my tutorial video on how to tie knots without any tension loss. the method works extremely well. nowadays after i tie the knot and when i remove my clamps. i always put my finger at the end string segment to feel if there are any string movement due to tension loss. most of the time, the string doesn't even move. the other myth is the rough and smooth thing. i never understand the reason behind it. some claims it is for spinning the serve, but that's just the side effect. stringers i have talk to who do it tells me they do it to prevent string breakage at those positions. but i question what kind of structural support such untensioned string would give? it would've worked much better if the string is properly tensioned, so why not just weave one more regular string if such effect is desired? furthermore, coiling an extra string around the mains will firstly restrict mains movement. which means the mains are restricted from stretching during impact but that's what give it repulsion in the first place! also, putting extra strings there will dampen the feel of the string (not unlike those foam dampener people use for tennis), which in my book is a big no-no. badminton is a touch sport and anything that dampens the feel and feedback is a bad thing.
What do you all mean by "wrapping the mains on the bottom cross" or "rough and smooth" ? I somehow cannot seem to imagine what this would be.
Here ya go, this is the one i cut out last week. The string is wrapped around so that if you run a finger alone one side it will feel smooth, and the other side it sticks up so it feels rough...
I may have been a bit quick to judge the restringer guy but to be honest, this was mostly down to his attitude as he was quite rude and arrogant. I never realised there were different restringing methods (i.e. one string and two string methods) which equated to 2 knots and 4 knots. As for the rough and smooth thing, that's the first time I've heard of it and my initial reaction was that it looked like some decorative artistic finish (and seemed completely redundant). However, I now realise this also is a proper technique (although I do appreciate some people think it is good, and others think it is not so good). But the 14lb tension he recommended for my friend's racket was absurd. I was shocked how loose 21lb felt like. I reckon you could tension dental floss at more than 14lb Thanks for all the comments, it's a great insight.
the smooth and rough thing must be something that was left over from the 70s. never ever have i see someone professional doing it. have you ever seen LD or anyone walking out to the All England with a rough/smooth string job?? 14lbs is also way low. modern strings can and should be strung much higher. it may also be left over from the 70s when the strings are natural gut and the strings and the wooden racket frame do not take high tension.
Its called trebling and a description can be found http://tennishistory.com.au/2010/04/racquet-stringing/I assume it is used for decoration now as the trebling is sold in different Colours.
Agreed, but either would put me off all the same. Just to give some background, I got the restringer's number from a common friend but didn't get a chance to ask the common friend any questions about him. When I made contact with the guy, who took 5 weeks to reply back to my message by which time I had already gotten the racket restrung but needed a 2nd racket doing anyway. I asked him what equipment he used and he completely went off on one saying "Whether I use proper equipment or do it by hand is irrelevant, you should judge me on the quality of my work". And then proceeded to call me a time waster just because I was asking a few questions about tension. The ironic part is that at no point did he explain how I could check or inspect the quality of his work. And then getting really defensive when I was just asking simple questions. A few weeks later when I saw the common friend, I explained the situation to him and how rude he was and my common friend said "yeah he is rude and arrogant but that's just his nature". A couple of months later, I then met the restringer in person as he got invited to our social badminton club. The common friend pointed out to me he was the restringing guy so I introduced myself to him and made him aware I was that person he was rude to back then and he then looked really embarrassed. I know a restringer doesn't have to be a good badminton player but he was extremely bad compared to the next weakest player in our club. He was not even making contact with the shuttle on about 2/3 of his attempts. I then later found out that most of his restringing jobs have for people are extreme beginners in badminton. The few people who he did jobs for who play at a more advanced social level were really unimpressed. I would rather pay twice the cost knowing that I will get a good restringing job done and getting quality customer of service. Any person who gets defensive when you simply ask questions about their work is obviously self conscious or have something to hide (both of which ring alarm bells with me). Anyway, a learning experience for me.
The 'rough and smooth' issue is something I have only seen in the UK. I am a bit surprised this technique still exists! . I agree with Kwun it makes no sense to use weave the string in such a manner. Especially when most of the issues of choosing ends/serve are done with the shuttle direction. I have seen it used with a separate coloured thinner string before. Personally, it doesn't work for me. IMHO, a decent stringer should be able to play the game somewhat. Otherwise, how would he be able to understand the needs of the customer? Poor attitude, poor knowledge and poor technique - sounds like a stringer to avoid like the plague.
The rough and smooth thing is an old thing that was common in the 80s and 90s, not just in the UK, I've seen it done in HK and Malaysia - though very few do it now. The purpose for this, as I was made to understand was to keep the main's straight during play. I personally haven't noticed any difference tbh, strings still move around. But it does have a little deadening effect and seems to reduce vibration slightly. Kwun, I've seen your video on tying end knots without loss in tension. It's a good method and I think it definitely will help with reducing tension loss significantly. However, I don't think it will completely eliminate tension loss. My reasoning is this. 1) Before releasing your clamp, the short length of string between your clamp and your knot is only tensioned slightly by hand. Unless you're stringing at low tension, this is unlikely to match the tension in the rest of the string. Even if you could pull to the same tension by hand, the temporary-hold knot will not hold that tension until the full permanent knot is applied. 2) Clamp load distribution - the fingers in the clamp holding the tension will reduce in resistance/load from the tensioned end to the knot end rapidly - such that the first, perhaps first two fingers will be doing most of the work. This equates to a length of string within the clamp that cannot be tensioned fully/at all. Appreciably, this is only a very short length but adds to the combined effect of all the other factors. When the clamp is released, the rest of the string will be doing work to bring that short length of string to the same tension which although may not display much displacement, will result in tension loss, twice. 3) Knot "further" self-tightening and slippage - When the clamp is released and tension is redistributed, the knot will further tighten itself over time and slide into the grommet slightly or split the grommet. With two more knots than 1-piece stringing, again adds to the combined effect. This may occur immediately or over a period of time of using the racquet. 4) Error/Consistency - this is an area that isn't talked about much. All stringers are human (or I will assume them to be!), and as we are all prone to making slight errors/inconsistencies in our work not to mention the differences in the variety of knots available, by introducing more knots there is a greater likelihood of some knots being tied better than others. Now comparing all of the above to having no knots mid-way through your stringing. You pretty much eliminate all the above at the point where you end your mains and start your crosses. Finally, as we all know, these knots rely on friction and the locking effect against the grommets. If, hypothetically speaking, there is zero tension loss in the knot you've shown, then the short piece of string between the clamp and the knot should be at the same tension as the rest of the string. With that in mind, then surely we can use it as a starting knot, and pull against it directly without the aid of a clamp. Of course, in practice (particularly at high tensions) this is not often possible. We need that slight tension loss near the knot initially to allow the knot to work. Having said the above, the method you have shown in your video is one of the best I’ve seen. I never advocate 1-piece over 2-piece (or vice versa) as there are advantages and disadvantages in both methods, but my personal preference as a player and stringer would be 1-piece.
agree. i don't think it is "perfect", but to be honest, tension loss happens everywhere, eg. when we tension a string, tension is loss already between the grommet's friction and the clamp before that, and no knot is involved. or even tensioning cross string, each cross string going through all the friction of the mains can lose a few pounds. while not perfect, this knot will make it a hell lot better than the usual half-hitch + half-hitch that most people do. let me address each of your points. agree. the tension is not matching. but what i have verified by putting my finger on the string segment that runs outside the frame, between the last main's grommet and the knot's grommet, is that when i release the last clamp, i usually do not feel any shifting of that string at all. what i believe that means is that the friction at the last main string's grommet is buffering the differences in tension. when clamping the last main, the string is tensioned. so all the segments between fingers are at the desired tension. and unless the clamp is not doing its work. the load should be equal. if not then this is either an issue that happens everywhere, or doesn't happen. as i mentioned, i have observed knots over time and i don't see any sinking in of the knots post-stringing. nor have i seen slippage of the string either. true. and thus i try to introduce a knot that will minimize that from happening. i do agree that one piece is superior in terms of tension loss. but we should also look at and examine ways to do 2 piece/4knots, as: - there are cases that it cannot be done, like on my machine when i can only use flying clamp - when stringer habit or stringing preference is 2 piece - when stringing pattern calls for 2 piece (2PTD) and also i believe it is valuable to learn and examine and disect (like what we are doing here! ) different techniques, be it for the knowledge, or just being curious or both! and lastly, this knot is not just for the mains. it can be used to tie off the last cross as well. i think there are some extra details that i should have verbally explained in the video. i was too focused on streamlining the process of make the video itself i didn't narrate the process. i have been on a roll with these videos lately so i think i can do a followup video to illustrate more about that knot.
I agree completely with this, however my points are really just about the difference between 1-piece and 2-piece stringing. Factors that are pertinent to both methods such as the grommet friction really doesn’t come into it. My thinking is a bit different to this. Putting a finger on there to check for movement doesn’t mean there is no tension loss. The strain observed in such a short length of string under your finger (say 1-2cm length) when the load redistributes will be so small that one would probably not notice it with a finger unless the string was slack in the first place (with redistribution, it's the stretch not translation). In addition to this, the movement may not take place immediately, it may be gradual over a period of time. If tensions were very low then I would agree, but if we take a nominal tension of say 24lb for instance. If the tension between the fingers are the same as the tension applied to the rest of the string, then we would have 24lb tension held between the fingers. If that is true, then that would suggest that 1 single finger alone would be sufficient to hold the 24lb tensioned string! Of course, if we calibrated the clamp such that it clamps the string with so much force that it can hold 24lb with a single finger, then yes it can be achieved. But in practice, we calibrate the clamp force so that it doesn’t crush and destroy the string. So in reality, there will be a drop in tension as you go along. Ok, perhaps the knots I do may not be the best, but I used to have racquets strung by some of the best stringers in the UK (Sam Chan, Gefen Sports etc) and those knots used to tighten and slide partway into the grommet over time. I’m not talking about the knot completely disappearing into the grommet/frame, but a very slight movement over the life of the string. Obviously with low tensions, tensions I regard as less than about 24lb, it may be possible to get no slippage/self tightening, but most (if not all) of my clients request tensions in the range of 24-32lb. ... and I applaud you for that! J Well, this is the great thing about the forum, it allows people to challenge the theory and technique and devise better ways of doing things. I’m an engineer and so it’s in my nature to want to understand how things work so that I can improve on it or solve a problem.
