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  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by huangkwokhau View Post
    Again BWF promises to standarize the PLAYER Lounge for all SS/SSP....ALL Englad does not have "standard" players lounge except INA Open SSP which their players lounge got BWF's attention....we know there will be delay due to long matches..and it is very important that we provide massage chairs ( courtesy of OSIM), snacks, fruits,hot food, noodle, games..computer, WIFI, TV and magazines/books and cozy chairs as some players like to take a nap.....so far all SS do not have that....
    Yes, this aspect BWF should standardise. They want players to perform at their best, food and rest must be minimum standard.

  2. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qidong View Post
    I agreed that it's very poor organized if a match has to play at 2:30am. But I don't agree with title. Peter Gade didn't lose the match because of the organizers. Didn't his opponent have to play at 2:30am also? Taufik couldn't eat for 3 hours. If he's hungry, and there were still 3 matches (for example) before his match, he could definitely find something to eat. 3 matches should last at least 1 1/2 hours.
    Actually, the player that "slept in" that day would have the advantage by luck, because of the unpredicted delay in the schedule. Everybody's body runs on a biological clock and between Peter Gade and Rajiv Ouseph, whoever was more awake by 2:30 AM would have the advantage. Read here for more information about sleep hormones and their effect on alertness and feeling sleepy:

    http://www.vaxa.com/sleep-melatonin.cfm

    The point is, the match shouldn't have been decided by who was more awake and who was more sleepy at 2:30 AM in the morning! Badminton is a sport that highly depends on alertness and reflexes - whoever could stay awake by 2:30 AM in the morning had a huge advantage! It is a reasonable expectation that all matches start between 10 AM to 9:10 PM - that is what the athletes prepared for.

    What if Peter Gade has a typical schedule where he likes to get up at 7 AM in the morning but Rajiv Ouseph likes to get up at 9 AM in the morning? If their match had started at 9:10 PM as per the schedule, both would have been able to play their optimal game. But when the match starts around 1:00 AM in the morning, Rajiv Ouseph would probably have the advantage because he slept in and was more alert at 1:00 AM in the morning. In this case, Rajiv Ouseph would have lucked out because of the delay in scheduling and because his opponent felt very sleepy and less alert because of the schedule!

    The organizers definitely deserve the blame for Peter Gade's loss, be it BWF or Badminton England. It's unreasonable to expect players to play at their optimal level by 2:30 AM in the morning. Peter Gade may not have accounted for the delay in schedule in his preparations for the match (ie. he should have slept in that day).
    Last edited by galaxyduo; 03-09-2012 at 10:46 PM.

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy05 View Post
    The All-England is operating under new Super Series regulations from the Badminton World Federation requiring it to use four and not five courts, which contributed to a schedule which went on into the early hours of Thursday.
    http://www.nst.com.my/sports/badminton/badminton-hidayat-rages-at-all-england-s-never-ending-story-1.57602#ixzz1ofUyhJ8k

    Regulations from BWF not Badminton England, if the court turn round time was too much then that is a problem that needs to be sorted.
    Is there a reason they could not have used two days for the Round of 32 instead of one day? If Badminton England knew they could only use 4 courts and had estimated each match would take 50 minutes (instead of the 40 minutes they initially believed), they would have easily determined that it is impossible to fit all the matches for the Round of 32 in one day. In the worst case that they have to play all the round of 32 matches in one day, they could have at least started the tournament at 9:00 AM instead of 10:00 AM.

    Both Badminton England and BWF share the blame in this if what you say is true. Badminton England shares the blame because they estimated each match would take 40 minutes and they started the tournament at 10:00 AM. BWF shares the blame for forcing 4 courts instead of 5 courts.

    The organizers for both Badminton England and BWF need to be replaced immediately before the Olympics start. I would hate to see news headlines for badminton about players losing at the Olympics because they had to play at 2:30 AM in the morning.

  4. #21
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    Agree with galaxyduo here:

    The point is, the match shouldn't have been decided by who was more awake and who was more sleepy at 2:30 AM in the morning!

    Every small amateur tournament organizers would have done better by postponing matches to the next day after midnight, but 2:00 or even 3:00?? Are you kidding me?? Strange to see this happen in England at this big stage, though.

  5. #22
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    from thestar.

    New proposal to further shorten Badminton

    THE 21-point rally game in badminton was introduced in 2006 to keep matches short and exciting. Six years later, there is another proposal to further shorten the game after the opening day of the All-England finished four hours late on Wednesday.
    Badminton England’s chief executive Adrian Christy said that introduction of tie-breaks like in tennis was an option to avoid late finishes.
    Several players, including Peter-Gade Christensen of Denmark and Taufik Hidayat of Indonesia, took a dig at the organisers for their lack of foresight — having packed 80 matches on four courts and expecting to finish on time.
    It all backfired when clusters of rubber games saw the opening day’s play run for 17 hours.
    Christensen, the 1999 champion who has been competing for 17 years, had to play in an almost empty stadium and lost to Rajiv Ouspeh at 2.25am in his final All-England outing.
    “It’s a shame that Peter’s last All-England had to end this way. He was scheduled to play at 8pm — the peak time — but his fans didn’t get to see the quality show,” said Christy.
    “But the delay is testament to the quality of the competition.
    “We have taken the Super Series to a different level but we need to find a solution so that the matches will not end at 3am.
    “We could have either started a day earlier or made it five instead of four courts. We could also introduce tie-breaks to shorten the length of a match.”
    Christy said he would work with the Badminton World Federation (BWF) to find a solution so that the same problem would not be repeated in future.

  6. #23
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    from thestar.

    New proposal to further shorten Badminton

    THE 21-point rally game in badminton was introduced in 2006 to keep matches short and exciting. Six years later, there is another proposal to further shorten the game after the opening day of the All-England finished four hours late on Wednesday.
    Badminton England’s chief executive Adrian Christy said that introduction of tie-breaks like in tennis was an option to avoid late finishes.
    Several players, including Peter-Gade Christensen of Denmark and Taufik Hidayat of Indonesia, took a dig at the organisers for their lack of foresight — having packed 80 matches on four courts and expecting to finish on time.
    It all backfired when clusters of rubber games saw the opening day’s play run for 17 hours.
    Christensen, the 1999 champion who has been competing for 17 years, had to play in an almost empty stadium and lost to Rajiv Ouspeh at 2.25am in his final All-England outing.
    “It’s a shame that Peter’s last All-England had to end this way. He was scheduled to play at 8pm — the peak time — but his fans didn’t get to see the quality show,” said Christy.
    “But the delay is testament to the quality of the competition.
    “We have taken the Super Series to a different level but we need to find a solution so that the matches will not end at 3am.
    “We could have either started a day earlier or made it five instead of four courts. We could also introduce tie-breaks to shorten the length of a match.”
    Christy said he would work with the Badminton World Federation (BWF) to find a solution so that the same problem would not be repeated in future.

  7. #24
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    Tie breaks? This BE CEO is as dense as BAM s! Tennis requires tiebreaks because their scoring allows players to reverse their fortune and the match can go on forever. Badminton scoring is one way, ie, forward only. With tiebreaks, intense matches will last 45 min ( is that satisfying enough for fans?) and slow starters will lose out. This is one sport where officials administrative convenience takes precedence over player and fan interests and match quality. Don t they have someone better than Adrian Christy for BE?

  8. #25
    Regular Member huangkwokhau's Avatar
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    Disagree to shorten badminton game....21 is more interesting....BWF should keep it as it is......

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by george@chongwei View Post
    from thestar.
    “We could have either started a day earlier or made it five instead of four courts. We could also introduce tie-breaks to shorten the length of a match.”
    Tie breaks are dumb! Why would you want to shorten the matches?

    The solution is to add one more day to the tournament or run 5 courts. Are these fools really organizing for the Olympics?

    Fire these fools before they ruin the Olympics!

  10. #27
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    The solution is simple. Start the Qualifying on Monday and the Main Draw on Tuesday night. That will allow matches to be spread out from Wed, when the backlog of matches is expected to be the most!

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qidong View Post
    I agreed that it's very poor organized if a match has to play at 2:30am. But I don't agree with title. Peter Gade didn't lose the match because of the organizers. Didn't his opponent have to play at 2:30am also? Taufik couldn't eat for 3 hours. If he's hungry, and there were still 3 matches (for example) before his match, he could definitely find something to eat. 3 matches should last at least 1 1/2 hours.
    If you eat too close before the game, chances are you will be more sluggish. If you are playing in the competitive world class field, that would really affect the outcome.

    Because you don't know how long the matches before you play will end, it is hard to time when you are supposed to eat. So if you time to eat about 2 hours before you are supposed to play and then your schedule is 3 hours late, you might be already lacking some energy

  12. #29
    Regular Member Loafers's Avatar
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    Is the op implying peter gade and taufik lost and almost lost respectively because of the schedule? I thought their opponents had to wait too so it's not like it was completely unfair...?

    But yeah playing that late is pretty unreasonable.

  13. #30
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    It's nice to see a high profile attached to the late finish.

    It really is unacceptable to start (and finish so late). I think we must have the only international event that does this on a frequent basis.

    Before the new scoring system, we did have an extra day of play. Obviously, this has been reduced - BWF anticipated shorter matches with the new scoring system and changes in the draw. Now that all are used to the scoring system, matches have stretched out in length in again.

    Logically, we need the tournament to start on Monday's again. That's good for badminton fans who have an extra day to attend the tournament, and deserve to see players play at their best. The players deserve the chance to play at their best given their playing career is only short and the sacrifices they have to make for the sport.

  14. #31
    Regular Member aulia's Avatar
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    Well yes, as a fan of badminton and tennis sport I can see there are so many differences between these two sport tournament. I mean, tennis is way more professional and I really want badminton to be like that too.

    As for this All England edition, I personally got surprised when see our first day was still playing when it pass midnight time. I mean, it's not acceptable for everyone, the player, the supporters, the umpire, linejudges, whoever there actually. Just insane.

    We just have to see why this could happened and I think the number of rubber matches that day is the main reason for it. This could be happened for every reason too, the competition is very high or just like already been said, players already adapted to this 21 scoring system so they can maximize it. Gosh you even can say that WD matches that included JPN players could end up rubber even when it's not started yet.

    As this condition happened to some players who has high profile in badminton world, like Peter Gade and Taufik Hidayat (I still have to see some players who got affected much about this late condition), their voice are quite important. I mean, can you imagine someone like Rajiv protest would be heard by us? Even he is from England himself.

    My point is, for those players who have the capability to speak their mind please say it for everyone's advantages, I mean, at first you have to think about your own matches but you could bring this issues by asking everyone else so it becoming more powerful not just like coming from someone who got lost or almost lost because haven't ate.

    I personally think 21 scoring system is still the best option. And to avoid something like this happened, we could choose between add some court at first day when the match is overloaded or start a day earlier. I would not mind got a full week of badminton.

  15. #32
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loafers View Post
    Is the op implying peter gade and taufik lost and almost lost respectively because of the schedule? I thought their opponents had to wait too so it's not like it was completely unfair...?But yeah playing that late is pretty unreasonable.
    Just by natùre of aging, older players like Hidayat and Gade are not as resilient as the younger ones. Already the 21 point system is tough, if BWF wants to penalize older players from now on by making a habit of holding midnight matches with 4-5 hr delay, then these older players may as well call it quits now.

  16. #33
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    Organising a tournament is never easy. There is so much planning that goes into it that Murphy’s Law will inevitably present itself. Unfortunately it has to occur at AE.
    We all know that the number of match ties are fixed in a 128-64-32-16-8-4-2 formation. Nothing we can change about that.
    The problem with AE seems to be 1 less courts to appease the advertisers. Nothing wrong with that as sponsors need to display their banners to get their buck’s worth on TV for sponsoring the tournament.
    There are those who think the scoring should be change to a tie break. I agree it seems ridiculous but maybe something to consider if time is the essence.Tie break in tennis is used to prevent the set from going forever so its' one way to get a result after an hour's game of tennis at six all. Not sure how it can be implemented in badminton.
    Perhaps the best way to resolve these issues is actually consider reducing the number of points ..... say reduce the present 21 points to just 15 points.
    Then you can use 4 courts in AE (will please the advertisers), each game would surely last 40 minutes (will please the organisors), and the players will be pleased and will play to their best with less points to play. To tell the truth, nothing will be compromised and every body will be happy.
    Perhaps those in badminton’s corridor of power can give this 15 points a thought maybe...... only maybe.

    Permanis

  17. #34
    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
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    15 points? Slow starters are doomed with the current scoring format! They have way less time to recover!

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